They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12

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jackman

Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #20 on: 24 Jun 2013, 04:12 pm »
DD - congrats on the purchase.  You have a very impressive system and I look forward to your comments regarding the new speakers.  PMC is a brand I have heard of but don't think I've ever actually heard in a system or at a show.  Looks interesting. 

Good luck,
Jack

dflee

Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #21 on: 24 Jun 2013, 08:18 pm »
Yes, I'm sure they were inexpensive as all get out. Now if you need someone to adopt an orphan pair of
eights, I know just the place where they will be loved and treated just like (better than) family. I know it will
be a burden but it is one I'm willing to take to ensure a happy home for your abandoned babies.

Don

Diamond Dog

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #22 on: 25 Jun 2013, 02:56 am »
... Now if you need someone to adopt an orphan pair of eights, I know just the place where they will be loved and treated just like (better than) family. I know it will be a burden but it is one I'm willing to take to ensure a happy home for your abandoned babies.

Don

^^^^
This post should have Sarah McLachlan music playing in the background... :green:

D.D.

Diamond Dog

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #23 on: 25 Jun 2013, 03:27 am »
I would be willing to bet that the efficiency is lower because of the added crossover point. A 3-way crossover vs. a 2-way crossover means a little energy is lost in the second crossover network. That would be my guess anyway.

I think your amp can handle it though,, and it's still an easy 8 ohm nominal load. Where are you on the dial of your volume control with your speakers now? I think you can adjust the input sensitivity of your amp for more gain too, if that helps.

Speaking of gain,,, I can see those EML 300Bs standing proud and tall upon your preamp in every picture.  :green:


I'm not sure that the extra crossover point tells the whole story, Q.E. The big PMC three-way monitors come in around 91 dB...something else going on here...
No worries about my mono's having the cojones to make these babies sing. I use the lower gain setting ( 23 dB ) now and at 10 o'clock on the pre, it's as loud as I'd ever want it.
As to the EML 300B's, once again wise council, that... :wink:

DD - congrats on the purchase.  You have a very impressive system and I look forward to your comments regarding the new speakers.  PMC is a brand I have heard of but don't think I've ever actually heard in a system or at a show.  Looks interesting. 

Thanks Jack. PMC's are a frequent sighting over in the Bryston Circle. They use Bryston gear for developing their speakers and are the British distributors for Bryston. For a long time Bryston was the NA distributor for PMC but not now. Both companies have a strong presence in pro audio as well with PMC's turning up in lots of studios. They have three series of speakers now: the classic i-Series, the fact Series and the latest Twenty series which sort of bridges the other two. All use transmission lines in their design.

D.D.

JLM

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #24 on: 25 Jun 2013, 10:41 am »
Low efficiency concerns:

The 5 dB you mentioned requires nearly 4 times the wattage to provide the same spls.  (Rules out many fine amps, including nearly all tubes.)

Reduced ultimate spls.  In a typical room to reach 110 dB (rock concert levels) would require 400 wpc with 84 dB/w/m speakers.

Less efficiency often translates into reduced micro/macro dynamic range (including speakers that don't 'wake up' at lower spls).


The low efficiency is probably due to crossover (always), probably due to that stated 26 Hz bass extension, possibly large gaps in voice coils (makes for a heartier design), and truth (more honestly stated bass/efficiency specifications compared to the more optimistic promises of some other companies).  OTOH the TL will undoubtedly make for a flater impedance curve and an easier load.

Letitroll98

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #25 on: 25 Jun 2013, 03:07 pm »
Oh my gosh, you mean there's tradeoffs when designing loudspeakers?  I never would have thought.....   :wink:

JLM

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #26 on: 26 Jun 2013, 09:58 am »
Oh my gosh, you mean there's tradeoffs when designing loudspeakers?  I never would have thought.....   :wink:

Sorry for not adding one of my often used disclaimers: 'There is no perfect speaker.'

Still waiting for the 1/2 inch diameter diamond dome that can do 14-40,000 Hz, 8 ohms at all frequencies, 95 dB/w/m efficiency with peak power handling of 100 watts in a small sealed spherical cabinet.   :wink:

Letitroll98

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #27 on: 26 Jun 2013, 03:01 pm »
I've been hard at work on that one in the lab for some time now.  The results for turning lead into gold have been more promising.   :lol:

JLM

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #28 on: 26 Jun 2013, 11:58 pm »
I've been hard at work on that one in the lab for some time now.  The results for turning lead into gold have been more promising.   :lol:

Oh, and don't forget to use a TL cabinet design.  (How could I forget that?   :duh:)

Diamond Dog

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #29 on: 6 Jul 2013, 06:21 pm »

A little information on the new laser-based acoustic mapping technique developed by PMC and Britain's National Physical Laboratory and used for the first time in
the development of the fact.12. Under the veneer on these is some substantial science.

http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/laser-based-acousto-optic-mapping.pdf

D.D.

now25

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #30 on: 1 Aug 2013, 02:31 am »
Hello DD, I'm really interested to know if you have received your Fact.12's. Like you, I have also ordered the Tiger Ebony Fact.12's without having heard them! I'm upgrading from PB1i signatures and will also be powering them with Bryston 7BSST2's.

Looking forward to your posting on your listening impressions.

Diamond Dog

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #31 on: 10 Oct 2013, 04:02 am »
 
So anyhoo....to unfinished business. They're still not here but:
 I was fortunate enough to be able to get a pair of the fact.12's into my home system for a couple of days. Serial numbers 29 & 30 in the graphite poplar finish
which I frankly am not that wild about. I packed them up tonight and they are currently residing at the home of another AC member in my city who is going to take them for a spin in his system as well before they go back to the distributor. I've got my fact.8's back in the system and to put it concisely, as good as the fact.8's are, the fact.12's absolutely crush them in every respect. They do everything the fact.8's do but better and they do things that the fact.8's simply do not do. Imaging is stellar, soundstage is easily as wide as the fact.8 but deeper, the most complex recordings are laid bare with really astonishing separation between instruments and presented with a real feeling of space so that you just get lost wandering through the sound taking in all the detail. The new PMC midrange is very impressive, lending a fullness to the sound and a really palpable 3-dimensional quality to vocals. These are three-ways as opposed to the two-way fact.8's but I'll be damned if I could hear any flaws in the integration between the drivers - utterly seamless.

There has been talk here to the effect that you cannot get serious bass out of cabinets like these with smaller drivers like these. As Rod Stewart once sang in Every Picture Tells A Story: "Look how wrong you can be..." These speakers offer up superb bottom end, fast and " bounce a quarter off it " super-tight, but integrated perfectly into the overall tonal balance of the sound, a rock-solid foundation for all the other audio voodoo at work here but not overwhelming or intrusive. Just right. Musical. I threw everything from Beethoven to Black Sabbath at these, they never made a mis-step and they never failed to entertain immensely. I was stunned at how good a supposedly lowly Redbook recording could sound, let alone higher-resolution formats. The most fun I've ever had listening to a pair of speakers, bar none.

So, any potential drawbacks, you may ask? Of course, 'cuz ain't nothin' perfect in this life...
They are a bit piggish to drive but the impedance doesn't drop to subterranean levels so while an 8-watt SET might not be the right tool for the job at hand, decently powerful ( and decent ) amplification should carry the day. Did you intend to drive speakers of this calibre with an AVR from Best Buy?
The styling is of course a matter of taste. I like the understated, minimalistic look. Those who think a speaker at this price-point should be very shiny, have leather patches or look like a little robot are probably not in PMC's target demo. So be it.
Oh, and they are stupid expensive...There is no doubt in my mind now that they are also value for money. But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong...

There are some fact.12 reviews online now with pretty waterfall graphs and such - if you go in for that sort of thing, feel free to seek them out and do with that information what you will. I frankly could not care less and will not post them here. I have heard certain speakers hyped here which apparently measure immaculately and they may look good on paper but they sound like crap. These don't.

These sound awesome.
Y'know...in case you were wondering....

Now where the hell are my fact.12's?   

D.D. 
 


Quiet Earth

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #32 on: 10 Oct 2013, 03:13 pm »
Well, I will say it again. I am very excited for you DD. It's a lot of fun to move up the chain in a product line that you enjoy so much. I know the feeling, and it is worth the wait. Lucky you.  :thumb:

I'm hoping to hear these speakers this January at THE SHOW Las Vegas. I know that PMC attended last year, and if they attend again in 2014 I can't imagine why they wouldn't bring their latest and greatest speakers. Fingers crossed.



( I liked the robot comment in your mini review. I think the latest fad-shape to make is a canoe.  :wink: )

Quiet Earth

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #33 on: 11 Oct 2013, 08:57 pm »
I just received an email from The Sound Organisation that they will be demonstrating PMC, including the Fact.12 speakers, at CES on the 30th floor of the Venetian Hotel this January 2014. I will have the opportunity to check them out and I am excited to hear them too.

 :thumb:

Diamond Dog

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #34 on: 12 Oct 2013, 02:38 am »
I just received an email from The Sound Organisation that they will be demonstrating PMC, including the Fact.12 speakers, at CES on the 30th floor of the Venetian Hotel this January 2014. I will have the opportunity to check them out and I am excited to hear them too.

 :thumb:

Check 'em out! Wonder if I'll have mine by January 2014 ?  :green:

D.D.

now25

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #35 on: 18 Oct 2013, 06:07 am »

So anyhoo....to unfinished business. They're still not here but:
 I was fortunate enough to be able to get a pair of the fact.12's into my home system for a couple of days. Serial numbers 29 & 30 in the graphite poplar finish
which I frankly am not that wild about. I packed them up tonight and they are currently residing at the home of another AC member in my city who is going to take them for a spin in his system as well before they go back to the distributor. I've got my fact.8's back in the system and to put it concisely, as good as the fact.8's are, the fact.12's absolutely crush them in every respect. They do everything the fact.8's do but better and they do things that the fact.8's simply do not do. Imaging is stellar, soundstage is easily as wide as the fact.8 but deeper, the most complex recordings are laid bare with really astonishing separation between instruments and presented with a real feeling of space so that you just get lost wandering through the sound taking in all the detail. The new PMC midrange is very impressive, lending a fullness to the sound and a really palpable 3-dimensional quality to vocals. These are three-ways as opposed to the two-way fact.8's but I'll be damned if I could hear any flaws in the integration between the drivers - utterly seamless.

There has been talk here to the effect that you cannot get serious bass out of cabinets like these with smaller drivers like these. As Rod Stewart once sang in Every Picture Tells A Story: "Look how wrong you can be..." These speakers offer up superb bottom end, fast and " bounce a quarter off it " super-tight, but integrated perfectly into the overall tonal balance of the sound, a rock-solid foundation for all the other audio voodoo at work here but not overwhelming or intrusive. Just right. Musical. I threw everything from Beethoven to Black Sabbath at these, they never made a mis-step and they never failed to entertain immensely. I was stunned at how good a supposedly lowly Redbook recording could sound, let alone higher-resolution formats. The most fun I've ever had listening to a pair of speakers, bar none.

So, any potential drawbacks, you may ask? Of course, 'cuz ain't nothin' perfect in this life...
They are a bit piggish to drive but the impedance doesn't drop to subterranean levels so while an 8-watt SET might not be the right tool for the job at hand, decently powerful ( and decent ) amplification should carry the day. Did you intend to drive speakers of this calibre with an AVR from Best Buy?
The styling is of course a matter of taste. I like the understated, minimalistic look. Those who think a speaker at this price-point should be very shiny, have leather patches or look like a little robot are probably not in PMC's target demo. So be it.
Oh, and they are stupid expensive...There is no doubt in my mind now that they are also value for money. But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong...

There are some fact.12 reviews online now with pretty waterfall graphs and such - if you go in for that sort of thing, feel free to seek them out and do with that information what you will. I frankly could not care less and will not post them here. I have heard certain speakers hyped here which apparently measure immaculately and they may look good on paper but they sound like crap. These don't.

These sound awesome.
Y'know...in case you were wondering....

Now where the hell are my fact.12's?   

D.D.

Many thanks for the detailed review of the fact.12's. I have actually received my fact.12's two months ago and your impressions are spot on. The transparency and soundstaging of these speakers are incredible! I bought the tiger ebony finish and really love the finish and the way speakers look.
Hope you get yours soon.

Diamond Dog

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #36 on: 7 Apr 2014, 03:32 am »

New review of the fact.12's in HiFi+

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/pmc-fact12-loudspeakers/

Well into the tenth month since I ordered mine and no, they are still not here. And yes, I have been in contact with my dealer, the Canadian PMC distributor and with PMC themselves. Welcome to the world of bespoke audio. You want? You wait. And you may cancel your order at any time.

But I'm not bitter...  :lol:

D.D.

Quiet Earth

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #37 on: 7 Apr 2014, 04:08 am »
The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you get one more yard
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
Yeah the waiting is the hardest part


( I think I waited nine months for my audio note speakers, and I would wait yet again for them.
You will wait for your PMC speakers, and you will be glad that you did.
)

Diamond Dog

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Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #38 on: 7 Apr 2014, 11:42 am »
 :D

D.D.

dflee

Re: They're Hee-eerrre...PMC fact-12
« Reply #39 on: 7 Apr 2014, 12:12 pm »
And the pain you must be going through settling with what you are listening to now.
It does give my jealous streak a little boost. http://www.audiocircle.com/Smileys/audiocircle/icon_mrgreen.gif

?Don