[roscoeiii]

Think Duke from Audiokinesis is also considering selling a kit.

[andy_c]

There is a video showing assembly of one of the smaller SEOS speakers from DIY sound group.  Here is the URL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgvjHB_7FV4

The prices given on this page:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

don't include the sides, top, bottom and back of the box, just the double front baffle, drivers, waveguide and crossover components.  For the other parts of the box, you need to order the so-called "flat pack", of which one example is here:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/seos-flat-packs/2-cuft-tall-seos-flat-pack.html

They are CNC cut, with rabbet joints on the edges and the braces fit into dado grooves.  You can see that in the above video.

[AJinFLA]

What about signal processing with passive subs?

It works with them too. You looking for more/cleaner/smoother bass, or something else?
If it's for an entirely new speaker system, you're getting some good suggestions here.

cheers,

AJ

[neekomax]

It works with them too. You looking for more/cleaner/smoother bass, or something else?
If it's for an entirely new speaker system, you're getting some good suggestions here.

cheers,

AJ

Looking for smoothest possible bass.

No, I'm asking how level/phase/eq are handled when the passive subs are driven from the slave ouputs on the SAM1s. Am assuming I need outboard DSP?

The sub thing is interesting, as are the waveguide kits. Not sure which I would want to do. Anyone heard the DIY Group kit speakers? AJ, any opinion on this design, for example? http://www.diysoundgroup.com/review/product/list/id/343/category/81/

[medium jim]

This might be the ticket:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116610.msg1221929#new

Jim

[rajacat]

Here's a build thread for the SEOS Zephyr. The Zephyr doesn't require subs for full range. Designed by Jeff Bagby.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455278/seos-zephyr-build

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/alpha-series-kits/alpha12-kit.html

...Roy

[medium jim]

This might be the ticket:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116610.msg1221929#new

Jim

Did I mention that the all inclusive price is only $209 and that it is from a Site Sponsor

Jim

[AJinFLA]

Looking for smoothest possible bass.

This will further you towards that end...and more.

No, I'm asking how level/phase/eq are handled when the passive subs are driven from the slave ouputs on the SAM1s.

Am assuming I need outboard DSP?

Exactly the same way they are handled now, by controlling the electro-acoustic (source) response. The recommended subs would not chosen from a hat. They would be specific and have a specific acoustic response.

Unless something has changed, you already have all the outboard DSP required for LP response.

Anyone heard the DIY Group kit speakers?

AJ, any opinion on this design, for example? http://www.diysoundgroup.com/review/product/list/id/343/category/81/

Yes.

Looks quite nice (if you like small refrigerator sized standmount speakers) but I like this one http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion12-kit.html better. However, unlike others, I don't know exactly what your specific needs are, room, aesthetics, output, extension, etc, etc, etc.
Just my best guess, based on what you already have, what you are looking at and what music you've linked me to.

cheers,

AJ

[face]

Looks quite nice (if you like small refrigerator sized standmount speakers) but I like this one http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion12-kit.html better.

That's the price you have to pay for higher efficiency, better dynamics and less power compression. 

[skunark]

There's several kits on Madisound with or without enclosures for open baffle, 1-way and more, surprised that no one has mentioned it.  Linkwitz's lx521 might be nice if the budget is flexible.   

[neekomax]

This will further you towards that end...and more.
Exactly the same way they are handled now, by controlling the electro-acoustic (source) response. The recommended subs would not chosen from a hat. They would be specific and have a specific acoustic response.

Unless something has changed, you already have all the outboard DSP required for LP response.

Erm, could you be more specific? How, example, would I invert the phase of one of the DIY subs? Or adjust the gain?

[JLM]

If you want a larger OB type project you could do Hawthorne Audio which has 10" and 15" drivers. They are highly efficient.

You could do what Jon is talking about with a bunch of different drivers either full range or coaxial. The coaxial will have a crossover in it. I am kind of intrigued using an Omega 8" driver when Louis starts selling his DIY drivers with 8" servo drivers underneath. You could always use a smaller diameter driver over an 8" driver. For a full range driver the smaller they get the better they are a producing high frequencies, but at the expense of low frequencies. A larger full range driver will be better on the low end, but at the expense of the high end frequencies. Larger diameter full range drivers tend to be more efficient also.

+1  (do check out their website:  http://hawthorneaudio.com/

I've heard the 10 inchers, 15 inchers, Augie (bass driver), Silver & Sterling Silver coaxial drivers.  Great bass from 15 inchers, more coherence from the 10 inchers (pick your poison).  Crossover between coaxials is pre-built.  All can be done with smallest possible baffles (they even sell pre-cut baffle kits).  The Sterlings offer more resolution for more $$ (can be drop in replacements for the Silvers).  Great build quality (the 10/15/Augie drivers are professional grade).  Augies do require separate amp, but allow for infinite baffle installations (heard that too).  BTW I live 1.5 hours from Darryl and 1 hour from his original mentor/crossover builder HurdyGurdy Dave.  Too bad OB doesn't do it for me.   

[simoon]

This looks like an interesting design - https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-sunflowers


Probably about $500 in parts.

[AJinFLA]

How, example, would I invert the phase of one of the DIY subs?

Swap + and - terminals. How do you know you would have to do this?

Or adjust the gain?

Volume knob on amp. Again, how do know you would have to do this?
Neither (individual adjustment) should be required, but if you are convinced beforehand that they are, then it would make far more sense to eschew this, go active...and spend more, as amps add $$. Not terribly difficult to do with a passive sub though.

cheers,

AJ

[neekomax]

Swap + and - terminals. How do you know you would have to do this?
Volume knob on amp. Again, how do know you would have to do this?
Neither (individual adjustment) should be required, but if you are convinced beforehand that they are, then it would make far more sense to eschew this, go active...and spend more, as amps add $$. Not terribly difficult to do with a passive sub though.

cheers,

AJ

From what I've read, some find that one sub out of phase in a multi-sub array is beneficial in reducing the effect of standing waves.

I would think that having independent control over your subs' gain, as well as stuff like being able to lower the xover point to something below 200 hz would be nice.

How do I know I want to do this? I don't... Until I hear the result.

[AJinFLA]

From what I've read.....

Yes, I thought as much  .
It's much less complicated than you think. But ya never know till you try.
And like I said, it's not hard to make passive subs active. Just one more hole to cut, one amp to buy.

being able to lower the xover point to something below 200 hz would be nice.

The crossover won't be 200hz. You are misunderstanding electro-acoustic vs electrical filter.

cheers,

AJ

[neekomax]

Yes, I thought as much  .
It's much less complicated than you think. But ya never know till you try.
And like I said, it's not hard to make passive subs active. Just one more hole to cut, one amp to buy.The crossover won't be 200hz. You are misunderstanding electro-acoustic vs electrical filter.

cheers,

AJ

You thought I might base my questions on what I've read? Well, what else would I base them on? The results of the controlled psycho-acoustic studies that I've been conducting in my basement lab?  C'mon dude, you know, while not an idiot, I am certainly a layman and a novice. I've read the Geddes stuff, and I've tried to parse the available information on the best ways to get good bass. So if I'm way off in left field as far as feeling I might need basic signal processing for passive subs, please elucidate me as to why.

[AJinFLA]

You thought I might base my questions on what I've read?

No, I know what you've read (and assumed) based on your questions .
But rather than circle the round-a-bout once more, riddle me this: what do you lose by trying the passive slaves first?

cheers,

AJ

[neekomax]

I dunno, time? Potentially desirable functionality? Maybe you could just explain how you think it should work, rather than being sort of obtuse about it.

[andy_c]

I am trying to follow this conversation, but I can't make sense of it because it isn't related to the original topic of the thread at all.

The OP asked about various DIY speaker alternatives and several were given.  But now, the conversation has shifted into how to integrate some unnamed sub into some unnamed mains via some vaguely-stated means apparently related to some emails sent between the two participants.

I did recognize the source of the bogus information about inverting one sub of a multi-sub configuration, but the thread isn't about multiple subwoofers.

So maybe the unrelated stuff could be split off into a thread about how to integrate a sub (which shall not be named) with some mains (which shall also not be named) using a procedure that shall not be spelled out.  Is that fair?