[xsb7244]

A thread for DaveC113. I like what people are saying about these interconnects.  Everybody please post your reviews here.  The intro price on these interconnects was $114.99 but Dave made very little profit on these.  The intro price on these are now $140.  Get them while you can,  Correct me but I think the price will soon be $200.  Back in the 1970s interconnects were free with the equipment you bought or a couple of bucks.  Compared to other stuff like amps cables are super sky high!  I like what I read about DaveC113.  I like his philosophy about cables.
You get quality stuff and value for what is offered.  $200 is the retail price for his cables but it could be sold for $400, $500, $600, etc.  DaveC113 what makes a interconnect a quality cable?  Whart is the thinking behind DaveC113 cables?

[DaveC113]

Hi, xsb. Just saw your thread, thanks. Might need to be moved to the industry ads section but we'll let Pez or whoever currently facilitates this circle decide.

I'll say upfront I do not claim to be an expert on anything audio related, I understand some basics and have built a DIY tube preamp and amp, and lots of cables over the years... I'm just an audio enthusiast like anyone else. I never thought of marketing cables before making the ones I am selling now. My results building DIY cables was always at least decent, but I never managed to build anything that was better than my reference, a cable made by Jupiter Condenser that is sold in bulk for DIY termination. It is made of 8 strands of 28g 6N copper: http://jupitercondenser.com/Cable/cotton-insulated-cable.html  It also isn't cheap, 2 meters of that cable costs about $140, plus whatever connectors you want to use... and terminating that cable isn't easy either.

When I first saw the Neotech EC-UPOCC cotton insulated wire, I thought it looked interesting because of all the individually insulated wires... lots of them! It looked like a modification of a litz wire design made with OCC copper and cotton insulation, both of which which I like. When I made the first IC with this wire I was shocked at how good it was... better than the Jupiter cable, better than anything I've ever tried. Then I ordered the 20g wire to make speaker cable... the combination of using this wire for ICs and SCs was amazing in my system. I knew I had something special. And the bonus is that this wire doesn't cost a fortune, I can offer these cables for a very reasonable price.

I also want to offer a good value for the money... I feel that many cables offer dubious value for the money and this end of the hi-fi business is seen as shady and full of snake-oil salesmen. So I have decided to be open and honest with my product, you know exactly what it's made of, you can look up how much the parts would cost you to build your own pair, and if that's what you want to do, I have no issue with people copying my design for their own use. I think people who value their time will find it's easier to pay me for a finished cable though, it's not an easy cable to make because of the braiding. Also, termination of a strange shaped cable into connectors that were designed for cables with round cross sections isn't easy. And, the Neotech wire isn't super easy to prepare for termination either. The parts cost will run about $80 anyway... so paying me $140 for a finished cable is really a bargain (IMO).

In the near future I will be offering 2 cables for folks that want the best regardless of cost... one will use the same Neotech signal wire, but substitutes Neotech solid core OCC copper / teflon ground wire for the mil-spec wire used in the current cable. It also uses Furutech's top of the line RCA connectors with the filament style center pin. The 2nd cable will be the same as the one previously described, but substitutes Duelund silver foil wire with a silk and oil dielectric instead of the Neotech EC-UPOCC signal wire.

As of this post I have not had a single cable returned to me, and most of the people who have bought a cable from me have said it's the best cable they have ever tried. I truly believe that for $140 you will get one of the best IC cables on the market regardless of price. 

[JerryM]

...I truly believe that for $140 you will get one of the best IC cables on the market regardless of price. 

Cable tour? 

[jtwrace]

Cable tour? 

Pics?

[DaveC113]

Pics?

Sure!

ICs









Furutech RCA plug with filament center pin for upcoming high-end interconnect.


SCs

Furutech Banana Plug



Furutech Banana Plug (top two) and Pure Copper Spade With Strain Relief. The Furutech connectors aren't cheap (spades are nearly $20/ea), but are the best I've ever used.



20 Gauge Neotech Wire. Cotton blend insulation, braided wire, each strand individually insulated with enamel, flat film core that the wire is braided around (colored red for visibility).



Bananas



Spades on the speaker terminals of my DIY amplifier

[DaveC113]

Cable tour? 

I don't see why not?

Not sure how I go about organizing such a thing though? 

[mikeeastman]

I just ran a cable tour so you can PM me if  you have questions.

Do you make balanced ICs?

   Mike

[DaveC113]

Thanks Mike, if you could PM me the general procedure in getting a cable tour started that would be great. 

I have not made a balanced cable yet but that's actually the 3rd time today I have been asked about balanced ICs. I will plan on making a balanced IC using a 4 strand litz braid, 2 runs of Neotech EC-UPOCC wire for signal and 2 18g silver plated copper/teflon for the ground wires. The Furutech FP-701/FP-702 look like a good choice of connector, the FP-601/FP-602 look great, but that's about $325 worth of connectors for one set of balanced ICs!

Also, folks can check out my website, www.davescables.com for some reviews. I have been overwhelmed with positive reviews, which makes this a lot of fun. I am really happy that everyone who has tried these cables shares my enthusiasm for them! 

[Maritan]

DaveC113 - Your cables look really well made.

I'm looking to DIY some ICs myself (not this particular style - just trying something else out), but what I'm not sure I have a good handle on is how to solder the ground wire to the "shell" (is there a different term for it?) of the RCA plug.

The signal wire is great, because the plug has a nice "cup" that the wire can sit in while you solder it down, but soldering the wire to the shell was a pain in the behind. Do you have any tips for that?

Sorry for the threadjack. You are welcome to PM me if you would like.

[xsb7244]

Dave, thanks for responding to my thread.  I knew nothing about you prior to 1 week ago and then I read your comments  on cable and I became curious.  With limited funds, I am not in the market for cables but there is always the future.  Anyway, what attracted me to your cable
was the explanation you gave on how you make them.  People should also know that they are getting a cable made by a mechanical engineer.  I 
like to know about the background of people that make things.  I read that you owned a welding and auto shop and have some electrical engineering experience.  Please tell me about your days in welding and auto.  And then you had a career change and became a mechanical
engineer.  What is it like being a ME?  My son graduates in late 2013 with a degree in mechanical engineering from Santa Clara University.  That is why I have no money!  Dave, thanks for taking the risk and making a low cost cable with a max value.

[DaveC113]

Congrats to your son for making it through engineering school.    Before I got my degree I had a little welding/auto shop. I have always been an auto enthusiast and opened the shop after doing a lot of work on 4x4s and building my own highly modified Toyota Landcruiser and Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. I did custom engine/drivetrain swaps, mostly putting fuel injected Chevy 350s in old Landcruisers... also custom suspensions, axles, steering and electrical systems. I also put in some car audio systems, it's a lot of labor to do a good job on the install but it's fun and non-greasy.    And I did whatever random repair and welding work came my way. It was fun, but hard on the body and after a while it was hard to drag myself out of bed and under a truck anymore. I already had almost half of my ME degree done, so I decided to go back to school and finish it up. I worked for Vestas Wind Turbines for a couple years, was part of their project team and designed a lot of the assembly operations in the Nacelle and Hub plant in Brighton, CO. It is a Danish company, I spent a lot of time in Denmark at their various factories and R&D center. Working for the Danes was awesome, I really loved Denmark and the Danes are great to work with. Copenhagen is a beautiful city, I really enjoyed my time there too. Working as a ME can be fun, like any job it depends on the company and your boss. If you're at a good company with a good corporate culture and have a good boss it's great.

@Maritan, the Furutech connectors I use have a slot cut in the shell that forms a thin strip of metal that's easy to solder to because heat doesn't dissipate to the rest of the shell as quickly. For connectors without a specific place to solder the ground wire to, I would put down some flux at the point you want to solder to, then use a large tip and high heat on the soldering iron to heat up that spot quickly to minimize heating up the connector too much. Have the ground wire tinned beforehand, and apply heat until the solder flows onto the shell and wire. I plug the RCA connector into an old cd player to hold it in place while soldering. Feel free to copy my design if you wish, I have no problem with that. Good luck!

[xsb7244]

Dave, speaking of welders, companies are desperate to hire skilled welders so they can keep up with demand.  You are the triple crown winner, welding, auto,and cables.  Also, do you repair bikes?  I read that you are not into vinyl.  Your amp and preamp are tubes.  Tubes and turntables are a throwback to the past, a wonderful past.  Tubes and turntables go together.  They are like the old Hollywood royalty, Clark Gable, Bogart, Lauren Bacall, Errol Flynn.  Vinyl has a magic and an emotion that cry out to be heard.  Long live vinyl.  And sometime in the distant future can you make phono cables?

[DaveC113]

I have some vinyl, but it's hi-res digital rips on flac 

Not being into vinyl is more a financial issue than anything else, the equipment isn't cheap! I'm saving my pennies for Schiit's new "statement" DAC that's pending release. I like my Bifrost, especially after the "uber" analog board upgrade (USB board upgrade soon as well), I'm sure their new DAC is going to be spectacular... and I like the upgradeability and that it's made in the USA.

I did make another cable though... Duelund silver foil signal wire, Neotech OCC copper ground wires, Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs. This cable cost 10x more in parts...

[xsb7244]

Dave, here is a DAC to consider.  A work in progress since NOV 30 2009, the Bottlehead DAC by John Swenson will be a good one and will be
finished very soon.  It is a kit I think.  Check it out.  Dave, if you make a custom bike and sell for $60,000 this will finance all your audio purchases.  I am not kidding.  With regards to vinyl two options.  First try craigslist for a good quality used Technics SL1200 MK2 turntable.  Don't buy a junk one.  You can pick up one for $300 to $500.  Be patient and be very selective.  It may up to 6 months to find the one you want.
Option two.  Make your own turntable.  diyaudio forum is a good place to start.  Your work place may have the parts you need.  Your engineering friends can help you.  Option 3.  your audiophile friends feel sorry for you and give you a free turntable!  Ok change that to they let
you borrow their turntable.

[xsb7244]

Dave, way to go o  your higher end cable.  It has the perfect snob appeal to go along with the movie The Great Gatsby.  I think this new cable
will give you a lot of credibility.  A low cost relatively speaking cable for those of us with modest means.  And for those others I say, pay more to get more.  It is good to have two cables with two different prices.

[rollo]

I have two pairs of Dave's ICs in da house. They do no harm. Neutral in character. I'm very interested in the Duelund cables. Using the ICs inbetween Plinius CD101 and Loesch & Weisner preamp. Then from BSG QOL to Arion  Amps. So far so good. Try them and find out if they are a fit for your system. Not a dealer for Dave.


charles

[DaveC113]

Hi xsb, I will definitely check out the Bottlehead DAC, hopefully it can do 24/192 asynch USB    Just got the new USB board in my Bifrost, it is awesome... I will look into vinyl one of these days, thanks for the tt suggestions 

Charles, glad you are liking the ICs and I think you have found their charm... they add nothing and are extremely neutral. This allows detail to come through that doesn't in many other cables.

I finished up building a cable that is the same as the Duelund wire cable but with the Neotech EC-UPOCC wire used in the original IC. It has the same character as the cables you are currently trying out, but is significantly better. Not surprising, as it uses Furutech's high-end RCA plugs and Neotech OCC copper ground wires. Parts cost is about 5x higher, so far I think it's just as good as the Duelund cable, but with significantly different character.

The Neotech EC-UPOCC wire is very neutral, while the Duelund wire adds some harmonic "richness" to the sound. I'd say the Duelund wire is a touch on the dark and rich side, but it still has the character of the silver used for the conductor material, so it doesn't sound closed or rolled off. Also, like the Neotech wire, it does not add undesirable harshness, glare or sibilance to the music, it still sounds very clean, and many people may find the little bit of "extra" the Duelund wire adds to be desirable.

I am (temporarily) going to price the cables as follows:

-Neotech EC-UPOCC signal wire, Neotech OCC/Teflon ground wires, Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs > $299

-Dueleund 1.0 Silver/Silk & Oil signal wire, Neotech OCC/Teflon ground wires, Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs > $499

I will keep these prices for the first half dozen or so cables, then I will need to raise the prices about $100... I'd like to get some of these cables out there and I am willing to do it for unreasonably low prices... 

Here's a couple pics of the $299 cable:

[xsb7244]

I say don't bite off more than you can chew.  In the past 10 years in the world of audio a few reputable vendors in the end did not fill their orders.  The customers lost their money.  How can you take orders if you know you cannot fill them.  Don't be greedy.  Is it not logical to take only as many orders as you can handle?  That can be as few as 2 orders per month.  Am I wrong on this?  Something to ponder.

[xsb7244]

For those that want to know about the Bottlehead DAC.  Look up Bottlehead Forum.  Than look for the heading that says Digital.  Read all 4 threads.  Taking orders.  Bottlehead DAC prototyping takes another step forward.  DAC Progress New.  DAC progress.

[xsb7244]

Dave, we have accumulated a lot of knowledge and understanding of amplifiers and speakers during the past decades.  A body of work exists for amps and speakers.  Would it be fair to say that we have less knowledge of interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords?  An University of Hawaii biochemist develops treatment for box jellyfish sting.  It took 14 years of research for her to understand and develop a treatment.  She discovered that there was not much research done on box jellyfish venom and no reliable antidote.  Your cable venture is sailing into uncharted waters.  Like the biochemist you will make your own discoveries.  Google diyAudio cables.  Here are some threads from
diyAudio Forum.  Cotton OCC 5N silver interconnect Cables.  One way to make expensive speaker cables!  interesting interconnect cables.  Burn in speakercable.  I don't beleive cables makes a difference, any input?  Homebuilt speaker cables-5th generation.  Looking for DIY interconnect Links.  DIY speaker cable, need some advices opinions.  want to make cables. Power and speaker cables.  I hope these threads
will help you in your quest for knowledge.  Regardless, you will have fun making your cables and contributing to the world of audio.