[SteveFord]

Tilting the smaller ones back just a little bit works equally well. 
I got the 1.7s facing dead level and now they only sound right when you're sitting down so that's not going to work...

[Pryso]

I don't have total faith in Cardas formula.  Even here:
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php
...it's like they don't even know the difference between front wall and rear wall.   (or their definition is different)

Maybe I'm just missing something.  I just can't understand how distance from front wall could be independent of room length and width.  Room nodes are related to length and width too, not just ceiling.  Using his formula, dipoles are optimally placed (with 8' ceiling) 5 feet from the front wall...whether the room is 8 feet long or 80 feet long.  Interesting, but I think I'll just stick to trial and error and patience.

In my room the (approximate) best place for dipoles is the same as the (approximate) best place for box speakers.

noway, let me explain my suggestion for a minimum of 5' out from the front wall.  In room acoustics there is a general rule calling for a difference of at least 10 ms delay between direct sounds and reflected sounds to increase clarity and minimize smearing.  Fortunately sound waves travel at close to 1 foot per ms, so a ten foot minimum distance provides this delay.  So the back wave from a panel speaker to the wall, then reflected back into the room will achieve this delay by the time it reaches the speaker placed 5' out.  Greater distances may work too but other factors enter, such as room nodes.  This 5' minimum placement only addresses separation for reflected sound, not node build up.  This is why I suggested a minimum dimension, not an absolute one.

Regarding tilting forward or back, Jim Smith (who earlier worked for Magnepan) recommends adjusting Maggies so that mid-point of the ribbon or QR points at the listener's ears on a line perpendicular to the tweeter. 

[SteveFord]

A buddy put that book out on a road tour a few years back and it has a lot of good information in it.
Some filler, too, towards the end. 

[medium jim]

noway, let me explain my suggestion for a minimum of 5' out from the front wall.  In room acoustics there is a general rule calling for a difference of at least 10 ms delay between direct sounds and reflected sounds to increase clarity and minimize smearing.  Fortunately sound waves travel at close to 1 foot per ms, so a ten foot minimum distance provides this delay.  So the back wave from a panel speaker to the wall, then reflected back into the room will achieve this delay by the time it reaches the speaker placed 5' out.  Greater distances may work too but other factors enter, such as room nodes.  This 5' minimum placement only addresses separation for reflected sound, not node build up.  This is why I suggested a minimum dimension, not an absolute one.

Regarding tilting forward or back, Jim Smith (who earlier worked for Magnepan) recommends adjusting Maggies so that mid-point of the ribbon or QR points at the listener's ears on a line perpendicular to the tweeter.

There are just too many factors for any absolutes....and that includes tilting the maggies, it worked in my situation and may in someone else's and is worth a try to see.  Maybe tilting them forward a bit not only got the panels mid ear better, but also moved the distance from the front walls to the panels (tops) as well.   I hear no smear effect in my set-up and am about 3.5' off of the front walls...no more room to bring them in further.  Because of this, diffusion in the middle was the answer with some absorption behind the panels. 

All that aside, once your Maggies find their Feng Shui spots,  musical bliss happens. 

Jim

[pansixt]

Tilting the smaller ones back just a little bit works equally well. 
I got the 1.7s facing dead level and now they only sound right when you're sitting down so that's not going to work...

When we had my MMG's at Jons, we had them standing straight up and they sounded great. They were on the long wall of nice tongue and groove paneling.
My first session with them in my room, I leaned them back and I have padded the top end with the one ohm resistor. Big differences in room.
In my room and on the short wall the bass is also too boomy on some tracks. I will be experimenting with moving them away from the front wall
(I have to 86 my couch) and see what that does.  Maybe away from the wall will calm down the bass and highs. Maybe stick a couple of tall plants back there.
Then I will get a better feel of spacing apart and adjusting the staging.

And then maybe read the directions and check out some of the placement info.

[medium jim]

That's the beauty of Magnepan's...

Anyway, I've tossed everything but rap at them since tilting them and it simply is wonderful.  I'm listening to a soundstage and not speakers, and a soundstage where there are no walls or boundaries. Chris Isacks Forever Blue never sounded so good.  That album/cd has so much going on anyway, but today it truly was like being in the studio. 

Heck, I'm pulling out cd's that I haven't played in years and loving them as I'm hearing things that I didn't before.  A lot if this can be also related to my new amp, which is a lot more open like a great SS amp, but retains the tube feel and soundstage. 

Sorry for gushing...

Jim

[pansixt]

Gush away Bro.

And let us know when you schedule the listening party!!! Share the Magic!!!!!!!!!!!

[medium jim]

Gush away Bro.

And let us know when you schedule the listening party!!!

 

I'm sure that there are other Maggie owners who have more entertaining systems than mine, but I'm still liking mine right now.  Kevin360, was right when he said in a PM, that I would love my new amp.  Damn, I love music, best damn medicine out there!

Jim

[SteveFord]

Pansixt,
If you have some spare time, try this:
Raise them off of the floor so the middle of the panel is around ear level at your listening position
3-5 feet out from the wall
Put some crap in the corners so there are no right angles
Remove the resistors
Slight toe in
If the sound is too bright try experimenting with drapes or something similar on the front wall
Angle back a few degrees, angle forward a few degrees, try straight up and down

Let us know what you come up with for your room.

[pansixt]

Thanks Steve,
And I intend to try most or all of these recommendations.
In fact, I am in the process of designing some stands for the MMG's and have my buddy at the machine shop involved.
These are based on a bad-ass set of stands that a 1.6 owner out of Tenn. has. He had his Maggies listed on AGON or USAudiomart I can't remember.
But they looked aircraft like and can be adjusted incrementally for tilt or height and provided a solid base to anchor your Maggies to the room.

I hope he reads this and will PM me with some tips on those stands.
James

[SteveFord]

I was talking to Wendell recently and he said that you can hang them from the ceiling like Davey does and it won't affect the sound any.
I always thought it would be kind of cool to have speakers that swung down from the ceiling and then you pop them back up when they're not in use.
Instead I got lazy and put some Stax headphones on instead but it's still an idea I will try sooner or later.

It won't strengthen the bass output any, though, which I've found bracing tends to do.

P.S.
It sounds like you're after something like Sound Anchors produces? 

[pansixt]

Spot on Steve,
Yes I am sure those I mentioned were Sound Anchor stands. I looked at the site.

Those are nice stands. I still intend to construct my own version.
I would love to build a version from hardwood.
Who knows. Maybe I will. Or I may contact Peter G.

I just have many contacts and experience with building motorcycle and auto related custom stuff from stainless steel or aluminum.
My imagination runs wild.

[kevin360]

In fact, I am in the process of designing some stands for the MMG's and have my buddy at the machine shop involved.

Hey, that sounds like a cool project. Please, keep us updated on your stands. There are lots and lots of cool projects which have involved MMGs. They are fantastic speakers (loaded with even with greater potential). I have 3.7s in the mancave but I still love my MMGs. Each of mine has a (10”, sealed) sub beneath it. They're elevated, nearly vertical and seamlessly full-range. My only complaint is that they lack that ribbon 'magic'.

[berni]

Spot on Steve,
Yes I am sure those I mentioned were Sound Anchor stands. I looked at the site.

Those are nice stands. I still intend to construct my own version.
I would love to build a version from hardwood.
Who knows. Maybe I will. Or I may contact Peter G.

I just have many contacts and experience with building motorcycle and auto related custom stuff from stainless steel or aluminum.
My imagination runs wild.

Seems like we are in a similar bussines(stainless stell, custom stuff..)
I did some aluminium miled and then anodized stands for my  20.1.,  which I think even more stiffened the frame as Mye(two point support).
I posted them some time ago. Steve also has some original drawings of them, maybe he can pass them to you. Maybe another idea comes up.
I did it a way, which allowed me to use all original screws and nothing was changed on the original frame.

[pansixt]

Berni,
I saw those images. They are most impressive.
Any idea I have could only be a post impression of those that you made or others made happen.
I have been studying and studying that design of yours. I am at a loss to find another idea other than a close copy.

But the day aint over yet.

Thanks,
James

Edit: Your design is futuristic, or retro. I'm not sure which. But Awesome..

[berni]

The MMG are much lighter so in the bottom you could incorporate a " multi angle tiliting device" , that would be something new and possible while doing the new design.
If you would use laser cutting , finding your own style would be a piece of cake..., ok only rounding the edges would be more difficult. But again the MMG-s are lighter you could use thinner material , which would make nicer edges when laser cut.

My designs are always tehnical, I dont have a art stream in me... I'm always thinking from the egineers point, non visible screws, everything incorporated, ...

ps. Thanks

[pansixt]

An MMG Dock.
It could be as simple as that.

multi angle tiliting device" , On a gyro. Since they are Dipole. It could be self cancelling. Zero Dispersion.

[berni]

Even tilting and raising in one design.
Alltough I dont see how raising can improve the lower end.
From the ALLISON effect you need to stay way down on the floor with the bass, the imaging improving is better to be done by tilting..

[pansixt]

They are smaller panels and seem to benefit by Bass reinforcement no matter the proximity to the floor.

[SteveFord]