Is a Full Tube Preamp + a High Powered SS or class D Amp the Ideal Setup?

medium jim · « **Reply #20 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 01:42 am »

What is the point of it all if you can't trust your ears? Why go to an audio show, why audition various equipment. However, the blog was amusing. I guess some need to be told what to like and not listen for themselves, too bad for them. I guess the next time someone asks me, how do you think it sounds, my reply will be, hell I don't know cause I read a blog that said there is this effect and that one, so you can't trust your own hearing. Guess I need to read the psycho babble of the maker(s) who tell me what I'm really hearing or not hearing.

Amusing is where in the same post, the poster talks about SQ, but then says trusting your ears is bogus.

Pretty funny when you think about it.

Jim

cujobob · « **Reply #21 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 01:54 am »

Why do it? For fun. Researching new gear, tweaking what we currently own, and discussing it with friends can entertain many of us. If hobbyists looked at speaker and amp design as a science instead of an 'art' then we would have companies putting our products that have more credible approaches to them. My main rig at the moment uses a cheap Pioneer receiver with thousands of dollars worth of speakers, but you'd never guess that. The hobby should be fun, but a wise consumer gets more for his money.

medium jim · « **Reply #22 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 01:56 am »

Quote from: cujobob on 3 Apr 2013, 01:54 am

Why do it? For fun. Researching new gear, tweaking what we currently own, and discussing it with friends can entertain many of us. If hobbyists looked at speaker and amp design as a science instead of an 'art' then we would have companies putting our products that have more credible approaches to them. My main rig at the moment uses a cheap Pioneer receiver with thousands of dollars worth of speakers, but you'd never guess that. The hobby should be fun, but a wise consumer gets more for his money.

And mine is full of used stuff (but you would have never guessed that) that happens to sounds real good to my ears. ....that is what is so darn fun about it....different strokes for different folks, a good thing to keep in mind

Jim

geowak · « **Reply #23 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 02:12 am »

How about listening to a tube integrated amp? That is what I have. I really did not want to match up a tube amp to a tube preamp, nor did I want one tube component mated to a SS. I also thought I could save some $$$ in the process. I love this integrated amp. It delivers the magic of tubes in one box.

Class D, it's just not my thing....

BTW I agree that your speakers will determine what kind of amp will work the best for you. That tip IMHO is great advice to be taken to heart.

tull skull · « **Reply #24 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 02:13 am »

nekomax I have come to consider the speaker amp relationship as more synergistic. Yet the preamp is probably the heart of a system. Lets face it, everything will influence everything else but since you have said that you like your speakers and you consider them keepers...I would tend to concentrate first on an amp or integrated that you really think compliments your speakers well and then see if you can find a preamp to take charge. Make sure you are having fun along the way!

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #25 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 02:20 am »

Quote from: geowak on 3 Apr 2013, 02:12 am

How about listening to a tube integrated amp? That is what I have. I really did not want to match up a tube amp to a tube preamp, nor did I want one tube component mated to a SS. I also thought I could save some $$$ in the process. I love this integrated amp. It delivers the magic of tubes in one box.

Class D, it's just not my thing....

BTW I agree that your speakers will determine what kind of amp will work the best for you. That tip IMHO is great advice to be taken to heart.

Integrated means one less power/interconnect cables and alot less solder joints inside the preamp.

NIGHTFALL1970 · « **Reply #26 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 02:45 am »

Neekomax,
Have you considered hybrid designs? AVA makes fantastic stuff. You get the detail and lifelike quality of tubes, and the powerful bass of solid state.

neekomax · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 02:58 am »

Quote from: NIGHTFALL1970 on 3 Apr 2013, 02:45 am

Neekomax,
Have you considered hybrid designs? AVA makes fantastic stuff. You get the detail and lifelike quality of tubes, and the powerful bass of solid state.

Hmmm.. no, I haven't. Do you use that?

Maritan · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 04:13 am »

Similar to what others have said, the best way is to listen to a bunch of stuff and decide what you like. I went to a couple of local dealers and listened to a few different setups. One of the dealers had terrible set ups ALL the way around. Yeesh. No imaging, no sound staging even with speakers that costed more than what my house costs!

The other dealer had a GREAT setup with moderately priced speakers and some slightly higher end AR gear. I then knew I wanted tube everything.

The reason I even went to these places is interesting. I was missing something with my current tube pre/ SS amp setup. I didn't know what. I would listen to an hour, maybe a little more and that would be it. I would have no interest in changing the CD/ record, or even listening to the same thing again.

I got my all tube setup and guess what? I can listen to hours on end till I have to go do something else. You'll have to see for yourself if tubes make as big an impact for you. Good luck in your quest.

neekomax · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 04:38 am »

Quote from: Maritan on 3 Apr 2013, 04:13 am

Similar to what others have said, the best way is to listen to a bunch of stuff and decide what you like. I went to a couple of local dealers and listened to a few different setups. One of the dealers had terrible set ups ALL the way around. Yeesh. No imaging, no sound staging even with speakers that costed more than what my house costs!

The other dealer had a GREAT setup with moderately priced speakers and some slightly higher end AR gear. I then knew I wanted tube everything.

The reason I even went to these places is interesting. I was missing something with my current tube pre/ SS amp setup. I didn't know what. I would listen to an hour, maybe a little more and that would be it. I would have no interest in changing the CD/ record, or even listening to the same thing again.

I got my all tube setup and guess what? I can listen to hours on end till I have to go do something else. You'll have to see for yourself if tubes make as big an impact for you. Good luck in your quest.

Cool, thanks for your thoughts. A day trip to Gotham might be in order...

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #30 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 05:04 am »

I use a Van Alstine tube preamp from avahif.com with a Parasound A21 amp and while it does not sound exactly like a tube amp I do get some of the tube like sound. It is a nice combination. I have a Class D Audio amp that I use in a second system with a Grant Fidelity tube buffer preamp/dac. I have tried the Class D amp with my Van Alstine preamp and it sounds great. It takes the digital edge and removes any hint of that sterile sound that some people complain of. The Van Alstine T-8 plus preamp is the way to go if you are going to pair it with a Class D amp. But it all boils down to preference as others have said.

NIGHTFALL1970 · « **Reply #31 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 09:54 am »

Quote from: neekomax on 3 Apr 2013, 02:58 am

Hmmm.. no, I haven't. Do you use that?

Yes. I highly recommend AVAs hybrid stuff.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #32 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 08:29 pm »

Or perhaps this:

http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=267&Itemid=229ey

I'm becoming more of a fan of integrated amps. If done right, they can potentially provide better performance than separate preamp and power amp combinations. I can vouch for that with the Pass Labs INT-150 as opposed to the Pass Lab separates.

audiogoober · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Apr 2013, 12:06 am »

Absolutely.

Class A solid state amplifier(s) with a full tube preamplifier is the only configuration I'm happy with.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Apr 2013, 12:29 am »

Another vote for try as many combos as you can. Speaker-amp matching is key, so trying with your speakers will make a big difference. With my SP Tech Minis, a Butler hybrid amp was the best match. On my VR-4s, the all tube Rogue was the best match. Both were preferable in my system and for my tastes than the much lauded ncores.

Also, tube amps can put off some heat. And will have higher retubing costs, but they also impart a greater dose of tube sound than a tubed preamp.

And within both tubed and SS gear there is a wide range of sounds.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Apr 2013, 04:27 am »

neekomax...

I guess that trip to Brooklyn has you "seeking higher ground"....

Some good advice posted....follow it.

neekomax · « **Reply #36 on:** 11 Apr 2013, 02:20 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 4 Apr 2013, 04:27 am

neekomax...

I guess that trip to Brooklyn has you "seeking higher ground"....

Some good advice posted....follow it.

Absolutely, man. Really couldn't believe how good that shit sounded. We got some changes a comin'.

This is something that has me intrigued, although there have been QC problems at launch, which they're dealing with (I hear) pretty well. Anyway, 250 wpc into 8 ohms, fully balanced monoblocks. First 35 watts pure Class A, with the option to run only in AB if you don't want the juice/heat of Class A operation. Emotiva XPA-1L

They've got a 30 day in-home trial. Maybe start with that, than if it's a good fit, figure out the tube pre stuff later on?

jackman · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 Apr 2013, 02:57 pm »

I am using a SAS 10A tube preamp an an NCore SS amp and the combination is really beautiful. Very 3D, pinpoint imaging and excellent tonal accuracy. Awesome air and high frequency details and no sibilance. The SAS also does not have the typical tube sound. Voices and instruments have weight and density but the detail is all there. I encourage you to try a SAS preamp and an Ncore amp. The Ncore is DIY only but I'm sure there is someone local who can help with an audition. Best amp I have ever tried.

The commercial versions are supposed to be better but they are considerably more expensive.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #38 on:** 11 Apr 2013, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 11 Apr 2013, 02:57 pm

I am using a SAS 10A tube preamp an an NCore SS amp and the combination is really beautiful. Very 3D, pinpoint imaging and excellent tonal accuracy. Awesome air and high frequency details and no sibilance. The SAS also does not have the typical tube sound. Voices and instruments have weight and density but the detail is all there. I encourage you to try a SAS preamp and an Ncore amp. The Ncore is DIY only but I'm sure there is someone local who can help with an audition. Best amp I have ever tried.

The commercial versions are supposed to be better but they are considerably more expensive.

Man, I gotta get out there to hear that set-up.

jackman · « **Reply #39 on:** 11 Apr 2013, 03:16 pm »

Any time Roscoe. Let's plan to get together soon. I've got some great beers in the fridge for the occasion. Bring along that Dual Core and some good CD's, please.

Cheers

Jack