[studiotech]

Here's the problem Kinku, you are focusing SO much on just the midrange, you are not seeing the big picture.  What is typically thought of as the range of the human voice has frequencies that extend much lower and harmonics much higher than you are asking for.  A telephone uses a single driver to cover that exact range you specify.  Not very natural is it?  I know, I know, a telephone and has no intention of being hi-fi, it just has to be good enough to understand the person on the other side.  But my point is still valid.

And do really only listen to solo vocal music?  I doubt it.  I get that a great midrange is your #1 priority, but there are plenty of ways to get a beautiful, holographic vocal, but they really need the accurate additional of lower and higher to get there.  Do you have a computer based music system?  Try filtering out the lows and highs and see where you tolerance is at for "needing" to hear a frequency range before you decide.

Greg

[rjbond3rd]

So many opinions!  A wideband driver is simply an over-grown midrange.  If it gets too big, you loose the finesse in the treble, and if they get too small, you lose bass and impact (which is already limited).  For me, the magic size is 4" but others are happy with 6" and 8".  Everything has pros and cons.

The cheapest way to get into a -good- design is to simply get the Fostex FE103En from Madisound and put it in the standard factory box (6 liters, the dimensions come with the driver).  Total investment of about $100 if you can build a simple box.

Mount them on a shelf near the wall, and you won't need any type of circuit.  Then play them several hours a day for  a couple months.  I've had dozens of speakers and these beat all of them for voice, acoustic, small ensembles, etc.  They don't really do rock.  The trade-off is limited dynamic range, but the benefit (of this particular driver) is outstanding realistic tone.  Multi-ways often sound strange when you move off-axis, or stand up vs. sitting down (lobing, radiation pattern, directivity).

The happiest I've been is with this exact driver, a Bottlehead SET amp and a sub.  I've been getting rid of my other speakers (except some Klipschorns for orchestral).  For a certain definition of "accuracy," they are the best.  You're only risking $100, most of which can be recouped by reselling if you hate them.  I suspect you won't hate them, though. 

Just make sure this simple design is on a shelf, or close to the wall.  If you need them on stands pulled out into the room, you either need a circuit or use 2 drivers per cab, facing opposite directions (double the cab volume and number of ports of course), and wire for the desired impedance (4 or 16 ohms).  First time out, i'd say just use one driver per cab and mount them on a shelf.

Why do people love them?  Because they do so much, so cheaply.  No, they don't do everything but what they do, they do exceedingly well.  Many people have heard a bad implementation -- but then, we've also heard many bad multi-ways.  Don't judge the category by the worst implementation out there.

[kinku]

Thank you rjbond.I would consider that an option ,but where can I find the enclosures for those speakers.The one madisound sells are more than 100 for each box.I am also interested to know what others are using in SDFR systems.

[rjbond3rd]

Hi kinku,

If you buy those drivers, there is a sheet inside which has the dimensions for a 6-liter box tuned to ~83Hz.  You can build the boxes out of any plywood you have.  It doesn't have to be fancy.  If you don't have the means to make them, I'm sure the local carpenter or cabinet-maker can do so.  There's no need to spend a lot of money

If you listen to rock, or are using a solid state amp, you can consider the Mark Audio CHR-70's which are roughly similar in price.*

* But nowhere near as good for acoustic music or tone. Still, they rock better than the FE103En.

[Mmaxed]

On Saturday I put some 12 FR in open baffle with subs on the bottom.  With 6-8 hours listening I would agree with those on both sides.  For the most part, vocals have never been better.  As the music gets more complex things can start to fall apart.  My ears are very sensitive to any harshness or edgyness in the upper mids and highs.  Some music at moderate volumes cam make me almost run from the room.  Turn it up or down and things don't seem as bad.  I do agree with the comment that you can't have these pointed right at the listening position.  Point them straight ahead and sit in between and there can be some magic.  Too much maybe.  More detail than I want, at the expense of smooth and natural.

I do listen to mostly classic rock so my take will be different than some.  My ringing ears like smoooooth.  Everyone likes something different.  Like others have said, it will come down to your ears, your music, your room.           

[kinku]

12FR stands for a 12inch FR ? From my readings it seems like the diameter of cone size also predicts how the speaker going to be.Higher the diameter more the distortions in upper band.

[JCS]

Kinku,


I agree pretty much w/ rjbond3rd.  I recently bought a pair of Fostex FE103en and swapped them into the Metronomes where I have been running FE108eSigma.  I have to say, I think the FE103en is an under appreciated driver in the USA.  (I believe it has an almost cult following in Japan.)  I don't know how it will sound in a BR, but it is doing great in the Mets.  If you want to give it a try w/o building a box yourself, you could try the cheapie Parts Express 0.23 ft3 MDF knocked down boxes for only $25 each:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7062
all you need is a jig saw to cut holes for the drivers & ports.  (Ask about lining/stuffing and other details if you proceed.)

Studiotech,
I think the OP understands that you don't like SRFDs.  We all 'hear' the same music, but we perceive it differently.  What is important to you may not be important to the OP.


Cheers,  Jim

[kinku]

Jim is it not that there is a recomended box volume for each SFR? I am willing to try but still in the research phase. Studitech what type of music you like to listen?

[rjbond3rd]

Yes, there is a recommended volume and .23 cubic feet = 6.5 liters, a perfect size for the FE103En.  You might even have some junk cabinets in your garage which could work (a range of volumes is workable).

JCS, I have the same experience with the FE103En vs. FE108E-Sigma.  I love both and while the 108 is superb, the 103 seems to be better in all the ways that matter.  For the same price, one can have the 108 in the (really lovely!) Nagaoka Swan BLH, or just take a shortcut and have the 103 in a bipole MLTL 6-sided box (with a sub),

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Well, I've been using my homemade single driver speaker about 11 years now I think I should put in my $0.02USD here.

    OK, first off. Single driver speaker are not for everyone. Depending on you taste of musics, room size and how loud you like to listen.

   And also what you value most when is come to sound reproduction. With that, you do get coherent sound with single driver speaker. I'm not saying there aren't 2 or 3-ways speaker out there that can do that nicely. But there is something special about single driver speaker, especially pair them with a good SET amp.

    I got hooked on single driver speaker back when I heard a pair of RL Acoustique Lamhorn at the Stereophile show back in 2001. It was an eye and ear opener for me. Of course I couldn't afford them so I set out to experiment with this and built myself a pair based on Fostex 6" FE167E drivers to see what is all about and if I don't like it I can just sell the drivers and scrap the enclosure. They were not really meant to replace than my speaker, Magnepan 1.5. That's was back in 2002... long story short, I still have them in my system.

   The pros and cons have been mentioned here so that should help you decide if it is worth trying. But my best advice is to go hear one if you can. And if you are going to buy or build a pair I would say go BIG if you can. To get bass from FR driver a back horn loaded would be a good choice. The critical part would be fine tuning them with stuffing, which will take time and patience.

    The only place I know that have back loaded horn kit is Madisound...
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/full-range-speaker-kits/

    I've never heard any of those but they do look nice. Anyway, good luck.

Take care,
Buddy

[kinku]

If I want to make a box of 6litters what are my options other than one from Parts express? Do you think it is possible to make one with wood.Where can I get the wood ?

[rjbond3rd]

As far as I know, wood comes from trees.  The box's interior dimensions come on a sheet included with each driver.

[opnly bafld]

[Vapor Audio]

As far as I know, wood comes from trees. 

You are correct sir!

[kinku]

As far as I know, wood comes from trees. 

That was the best information so far I got from this circle. Really appreciate your input.
I do know the speakers comes with dimensions to make it. Does anyone know where to buy wood panels to actually make it.I do not want to be  Robinson Crusoe in DIY speakers. Something better than bringing a tree down and making panels from it.

[neekomax]

That was the best information so far I got from this circle. Really appreciate your input.
I do know the speakers comes with dimensions to make it. Does anyone know where to buy wood panels to actually make it.I do not want to be  Robinson Crusoe in DIY speakers. Something better than bringing a tree down and making panels from it.

Home Depot got wood.

[dduval]

As far as I know, wood comes from trees.

That's really strange, and creepy. Have you tried a good XXX movie? 

[rollo]

  FR field coil drivers appeal to me. Not inexpensive but truly full range. Any experience here with Field Coils ? 

charles

[rjbond3rd]

I got to hear several field coils over the years, and replacing the permanent magnet with an electromagnet definitely adds tweakability (e.g., dialing in the ideal required Qts for a particular enclosure by adjusting the voltage).  Bass response aside, it definitely can change the character of certain drivers.

For example, the Lowther field coil seemed to get much smoother in the midrange than they normally are.  Personally, I would still call these widebanders.  If your goal is to adjust the driver's Qts, there are cheaper ways to get a similar effect -- not the exact effect, but roughly similar.  Of the several I heard, only the Feastrex was in the five digits, and in that brand, they happen to have a similar "regular" (permanent magnet) model which might even sound better in some ways.

I'm excited to see the Wild Burro Betsy field coil seems to be nearly available.

[quietglow]

For whatever it's worth (one data point):

I have a friend who built a set of those enclosures with FE103s almost a decade ago. Every time I go to his house I threaten to steal them because they sound so good. They're sitting on a bookshelf. I am contemplating buying a set of the flatpacked horn enclosures madisound sells, and I only hope they sound as good.

More info: they're driven by a SET amp I built (sort of a close on the Decware Zen using 6V6 tubes). We've listened to lots of fairly peppy rock (My Bloody Valentine, anyone?) with them, and maybe it was the beer but I continued to be amazed by them. That said, we both like The room they're in isn't cavernous.

Disclaimer: I do not have a golden ear, and I tend to be easily impressed.