[Mark Korda]

Hi Maritan, I worked for Fed Ex as a courier for 5 years. I saw a training tape they showed us about where the package goes before it gets in your hands. All the jets from the cities around the country take off for Memphis at about 9 or 10 o'clock,I'm sorry,this is overnight and 2 day delivery.FedEx now has ground service. When the jets get to Memphis everything is unloaded to a giant conveyor belt system. There was a point in the tape that showed a giant pile up of packages. They were spilling out end over end like if you can imagine like a dump truck raising up it's load and just letting them go,thats what I saw.Frank VanAlstine once said to pack up a vacuum tube amp for shipping you have to pack it as to survive falling down a full flight of stairs. Even if you put bubble wrap or foam rubber inside the protective cage to keep the tubes in place,the jostling that takes place can take it's toll. Thats why most techs would not align a tube tuner and then take the chance of sending it thru parcel delivery systems. By the way,FedEx sucked,I quit quite a while ago.The managers treated the workers so poorly,some of the drivers would kick or punch a box in their van just to relieve  the stress managment put them thru. Tom Hanks played the part of a FedEx manager perfectly in Castaway,always yelling and looking at his watch.By the way,besides the broken tubes,that looks like a beautiful amp......Mark K.

[SET Man]

.....

As far as assigning fault: I will take (a very minute) part of the blame for not asking the seller to pack the tubes individually for shipment. If the seller makes an effort to pack everything safely and the carrier still managed to destroy things, then obviously the seller is not at fault. In this case it was a lack of know-how/ common sense (read on).

This was my first tube anything purchase. In all my research of tube equipment, I constantly came across adverts that mentioned that the tubes would be packed individually for shipment. By the time I stumbled upon this particular amp that I bought, that facet of shipping tube equipment was so entrenched in my mind that packing tubes individually seemed like something anybody would automatically do. My fault for assuming common sense was common.

All that said, I have contacted the seller, and he has responded. Unfortunately, this was his first time shipping tubed equipment and he didn't realize what he needed to do. But, he has responded, and he does seem like he'll work with me to rectify the issue.

From now on, when I buy more tube equipment I will be sure to remind the seller to pack the tubes separately.

Hey!

   It is not your fault at all. The seller should have pack up those tubes in a separate box. I can see and except small tube like 9 pin tubes shipped in the sockets but never bigger power tubes. 

   Yeah, right... seller's first time shipping tube amp my a**. I'm pretty sure that when he got the amp from VTL those tubes were packed in a separate box from the factory.

   In this cast FedEx will deny responsibility for sure and I feel the seller should pay for a new set of tubes.

   As for the common sense... well, it is not that common these days 

Take care,
Buddy

[underdawg]

I feel empathy for the OP. I guess I have to say in this case the seller takes the full responsibility. It looks as if he/she did not give a sh** and how difficult is it to take out the tubes to wrap them in bubble wrap?
I would be very, very pissed. I would demand my money refunded, canceled the transaction straight away after I witnessed that obvious lack of concern to properly and carefully package a delicate tube amp. I would be furious, since fedex probably will not honor a claim.

How would the buyer know if the amp ever worked even before it shipped?
Demand your money back, if you have not gotten it already. This smells like
donkey manure!

My response is quit trying to dwiddle the shipping expenses, if you want it shipped bullet proof the buyer should pay for that, otherwise both parties take their chances.
Based on what your saying, ill do this buy my 750 amp, shipping is 250.00 to arrive safely. Then everyone will complain about shipping charges.
just my 2 cents.

[SteveFord]

I'll bet the box fell from a height and landed upside down and out popped the tubes when all that weight hit.
I bubble wrap tubes, put them in a seperate box and hope for the best. 
You can just never tell with shippers, any of them can destroy an anvil.

[underdawg]

Hey!

   It is not your fault at all. The seller should have pack up those tubes in a separate box. I can see and except small tube like 9 pin tubes shipped in the sockets but never bigger power tubes. 

   Yeah, right... seller's first time shipping tube amp my a**. I'm pretty sure that when he got the amp from VTL those tubes were packed in a separate box from the factory.

   In this cast FedEx will deny responsibility for sure and I feel the seller should pay for a new set of tubes.

   As for the common sense... well, it is not that common these days 

I cant tell you how many buyers complain when they get quotes. THey measure the unit, no packing, call fedex or ups and say I have an item this size , that weighs this much.
The reality is double or tripple the size of the item. add the extra 5 lbs plus packing, then add the xtra dimensions for the over sized box and shazam, guess what. Shipping is tripple what they told you. You know cheap a** audiophiles that can buy 1000 dollar amps at a substancial discount, can pay the shipping and Packing, if not dont buy it.Be real and use common sense if you cant stay out of audio please.The original owner paid 5000 or 10000 for the piece.YOu can pay 1000 plus 250 for safe shipping.

Take care,
Buddy

[catastrofe]

My response is quit trying to dwiddle the shipping expenses, if you want it shipped bullet proof the buyer should pay for that, otherwise both parties take their chances.
Based on what your saying, ill do this buy my 750 amp, shipping is 250.00 to arrive safely. Then everyone will complain about shipping charges.
just my 2 cents.

As a general rule, it's not the buyer's responsibility to specify how the item should be packed.  The expectation is that the seller will pack the item appropriately to arrive in the condition it was advertised

Special handling is a different matter.  If I want something shipped in a lead-lined box, I should pay for it, and if I specify packing requirements and the item arrives damaged, that should be on me.

Clearly in this case, the seller didn't even take the basic precaution of shipping the tubes separately.  He bears the entire burden of this srew-up.

[geowak]

My response is quit trying to dwiddle the shipping expenses, if you want it shipped bullet proof the buyer should pay for that, otherwise both parties take their chances.
Based on what your saying, ill do this buy my 750 amp, shipping is 250.00 to arrive safely. Then everyone will complain about shipping charges.
just my 2 cents.

Tell me which company you are with, so I can avoid buying your stuff.

Do you know what kind of headache this guy will have now? If he ever gets his money back? What if minute pieces of glass fell into the amp and he has to guess if it'll function properly? What if the amp finally is up and running, but shorts out or worse causes a fire? There are many possible bad outcomes here it seems because the amp was packed poorly and the tubes (glass) were left in. It's not rocket science to figure out the seller did not take any concern for how this amp was packed. I hope the buyer did not complete the transaction, so the seller did not get any money.

I stand by what I said, send this crap back to the seller with all the shards of glass that come in the box. Let the seller file the claim after you get your money back.

[medium jim]

I just shipped my Model 9's (sad), and used liquid Styrofoam to form fit and this give about 3" cushion.  I left the tubes in, but used both packing paper and bubble wrap to snug it all in place and then wrapped the cage(s) with shrink wrap with the screws in a separate zip lock bag.  It arrived completely intact as is the case for every tube amp I have shipped.  Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer and the seller is stupid not to fully insure against damage. 

In this case, the seller was remiss and any claim for damage should be denied.  FedEx is like any carrier, they will attempt to bully you, but if you packed it correctly you will win any claim if you know your rights....forget their bogus tariff's as the Carmack Amendment protects you within the USA.  If you ship internationally, use 3rd party insurers in addition to the valuation you can buy from the carrier.

Jim

[Ericus Rex]

My response is quit trying to dwiddle the shipping expenses, if you want it shipped bullet proof the buyer should pay for that, otherwise both parties take their chances.
Based on what your saying, ill do this buy my 750 amp, shipping is 250.00 to arrive safely. Then everyone will complain about shipping charges.
just my 2 cents.

Removing the tubes and boxing them separately costs nothing but 15 minutes of time.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Removing the tubes and boxing them separately costs nothing but 15 minutes of time.

BINGO!
It keeps having to be said over and over, but this is the bottom line. The douche was too lazy to give a shit.

[underdawg]

Tell me which company you are with, so I can avoid buying your stuff.

Do you know what kind of headache this guy will have now? If he ever gets his money back? What if minute pieces of glass fell into the amp and he has to guess if it'll function properly? What if the amp finally is up and running, but shorts out or worse causes a fire? There are many possible bad outcomes here it seems because the amp was packed poorly and the tubes (glass) were left in. It's not rocket science to figure out the seller did not take any concern for how this amp was packed. I hope the buyer did not complete the transaction, so the seller did not get any money.

I stand by what I said, send this crap back to the seller with all the shards of glass that come in the box. Let the seller file the claim after you get your money back.

Believe it or not some dont know how to truly pack stuff for shipping safely, so that is not a fair statement.

Needless to say I only deliver or sell to those who will pay the shipping and packing. I am in this for a hobby, not to make a living,who wants this type of headache. I do not negotiate shipping, its flat fee, you dont want to pay its fine, there is 3 people after you who will pay the true shipping. For those who complain about shipping prices heres a classic example.

[underdawg]

Removing the tubes and boxing them separately costs nothing but 15 minutes of time.

Not true, some dont know how to pack for safe shipping , thats what insurance is for.
Just like if some person hits you with no insurance, if your smart you pay uninsured motorist, if your cheap you dont, then you get hit and complain....just sayin.

[SET Man]

Removing the tubes and boxing them separately costs nothing but 15 minutes of time.

Hey!

  Wait how many tubes in that amp? I bet I can do it faster than 15 mins 

   I see that the amp was shipped in it own VTL factory box. So, I'm pretty sure is strong enough. And there should be room and smaller box for tubes in there. Unless VTL ship everything with tube installed of which I doutb it.

   Anyway, cleaning up the glass is not fun but I think the amp looks fine and should work.

   Well, good luck. And hope this won't turn you away from tube.

Take care,
Buddy

[thunderbrick]

Not true, some dont know how to pack for safe shipping , thats what insurance is for.
Just like if some person hits you with no insurance, if your smart you pay uninsured motorist, if your cheap you dont, then you get hit and complain....just sayin.

Insurance is NOT for those who don't know how to pack.  If improperly packed insurance will be of no value as claims will be rejected.  The auto insurance analogy doesn't hold water.  That's like saying I should buy extra insurance in case the shipper is too stupid to pack it right.

[rocker9999]

One more option to consider, is a professional shipping case. These cases are designed to withstand a significant amount of "poor handling" by the "experts" at FedEx and UPS. I am a former television producer, we shipped cameras and lenses all over the country - in professional custom cases. I'm talking about broadcast cameras valued at 100k and lenses valued at 35k. We probably had a 99% success rate using these cases. Yea, it cost money, but you can find used ones on EBAY, get them re-foamed and custom cut for whatever your shipping. I recently shipped a vintage Marantz receiver to the west coast for restoration, the round trip was over 4000 miles. The tech said he had never seen a shipping case like I packed - total weight about 60 pounds. Safe delivery on both ends, Mission accomplished.

[gjm]

... And don't trust professional shippers/packers. Here's a pic of my DIY monoblocks, exactly as I found them after they arrived after travelling from England to NZ.



Two monos - placed in a suitcase. No protective wrapping, not packing around them - nothing. The case was closed and wrapped in protective packing before being placed in a box. The delivery sheet made no mention of the amps and listed just the suitcase.

They didn't fare very well. And are the subject of a protracted insurance claim...

[JakeJ]

I went through a Mac tuner with I swear to god 100 yr old rock hard foam. Front end glass all busted up.Fed ex came over looked at and ruled instantly in my favor , they aren't all bad.

Your experience differs vastly from mine.  Never once received a dime on any claim.

Believe it or not some don't know how to truly pack stuff for shipping safely, so that is not a fair statement.

Unfortunately the sad fact is there are people roaming the streets that are barely capable of tying their shoes.

gjm,

Welcome to AudioCircle and the Tube-O-Phile forum!  That is one of the more interesting and amazing stories of packing and shipping nightmares I've heard.  My experience, from the early days of eBay, was on more than one occasion the seller only used wadded up balls of newspaper, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.  On the positive side it looks like you got a very nice suitcase as a bonus.  OK, not funny.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out for Maritan.

[Maritan]

Update. One more Winged C 6550 was shot to bring the tally up to 4 total tubes damaged in transit.

Before I provide a general update, I wanted to address underdawg first - Are you insinuating that getting something shipped via ground is akin to guaranteeing damage and that people who choose this shipping method deserve it? I hope I'm misunderstanding you and that you set me straight.

The seller has great feedback prior to this sale. Not one negative comment. Frankly, I'm surprised at how much anger has been expressed by some folks here - but I do appreciate all the commiserating. I want to give the seller the benefit of the doubt regarding this situation. The fact that he even responded the first time to say that he hadn't shipped tubes before instead of simply heading for the hills is a slight positive. Maybe he lucked out when the amp was shipped to him. Or maybe, he picked it up in person from someone. We'll never know because this is irrelevant and cannot help what has happened now, so I won't ask. What I do want is for him to work with me and sort this out.

In any case, I had to spend a LOT of time cleaning up the glass pieces and glass powder that was covering the amp yesterday. I also gently vacuumed the insides of the amp and the sockets itself to make sure no small pieces of glass got stuck inside. Everything looked good on the bottom side with regards to solder points and components.

I found a place locally that sells tubes, so I bought 8 x Winged C 6550s, 2 x NOS 6350s and 2 x 12AT7s. I plugged all the tubes in, connected everything to the amp. I switched on the preamp and muted it, and then switched on the VTL. Everything started glowing nicely, and nothing seemed to get red hot. I let the tubes warm up for about 10 minutes and then went about adjusting bias. (Yes, SteveFord, I used a plastic screwdriver that I found!  )

I went through adjusting bias for all the tubes a few times to ensure that they all stayed in the appropriate range before playing some music through this amp. Even with brand new tubes, the music sounded great. I mean, what GLORIOUS MUSIC. My system hasn't been optimized for the room yet, but I already could hear differences and improvements. Not subtle either. Wow, just wow. I think I'm a bottlehead. At least my ears seem to dictate so.

The VTL ST-150 stays!

       

I have updated the seller with the latest info, and we shall see what he says. I will give you guys an update once I get things sorted out.

[WireNut]

Awe dude, I am so glad to hear it is working.
Excellent 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Awe dude, I am so glad to hear it is working.
Excellent 

Amen to that!