[ted_b]

How about sitting in your listening position, browsing jremote, and pulling up a pure native 5.1 DSD rip of Beck-Sea Change, for playback in native DSD. And no, I don't have a Sonoma workstation sitting here! YES!!

Well, I mentioned in a few threads that I was getting ready to prototype a possible 5.1 pure DSD playback setup. The thought of using J River and jremote (ipad) to browse a multichannel catalog that includes native DSD 5.1 (and 3.0, etc) is a 2013 goal of mine. 2012 was a watershed for DSD-capable stereo DACS (I own 3, Metiner, Mytek, exasound).

Well..yesterday marks the first huge step in that goal!

Mytek delivered my third Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC yesterday Own one, demoing the seond for their newer hardware boards), along with a simple 4-port USB hub. My goal for this weekend coming up was to simply get something working, and I assumed it would be a lot of trial and error..even though Michal and Chebon (Mytek) had given me pretty good instructions going in.

Matt at J River had just released a beta version of JRMC that fixed a couple idiosyncrasies in 5.0 vs 5.1 playback, so i downloaded 18.0131, made sure Mytek's 133.1 Windows ASIO driver was loaded on my CAPS V2+ and hooked up the USB hub. I used some decent (and awful generic) USB cables to cobble together a three-port setup, and used the SOtM card to drive it (directly powered by the iFi). I thought the hub would need power but it didn't. The USBPAL driver screen indicates what goes where (hint: the oldest serial number gets main lf/rf, the next gets c/sw and the newest DAC gets ls/rs). I guessed right the first time! Go figure.

I use a tried-and-true analog multichannel preamp (Sony TAP-9000ES) for volume and analog channel trimming (so far done via ear only; I will drag out the Rat Shack digital SPL meter tonight). I created a MCh DSF parent folder, moved a few 5.1 DSF albums into it and had J Remote add the parent in auto-import. Voila. (My next step is to create a multichannel view and use it in jremote; the view rule will be simple..."channels greater than 2"). One of the DSF folders is the Pentatone sampler that includes test tones and channel id tracks.

First up, after confirming channels and doing simple trims, was Beck-Sea Change, a tremendous surround sound album. The clarity, tone, dynamics and deep bass of this thing, heard 1000 times before, was startling. The Mytek trio blew away (yes blew away) the Oppo 83SE in this first test. And channel trims weren't even done yet. Wow!

Stay tuned for more updates.

Here's what the setup looks like (stacked Myteks next to my CAPS V2+. The other thing is simply a gigabit ethernet switch, so my 2 channel setup would still have ethernet).




Updates:
Myteks are all stock. They were set for bypass volume. J River was setup for ASIO and bitstream "DSD" (not "DoP"). Rebooted initially as one of the DACS wasn't seeing the CAPS, and J River was having issues. Reboot took care of everything. I do not have Fidelizer running currently. Win 8 is un-tweaked currently (I've used Fidelizer to do that so far, short of a good list of changes). ISO's were extracted using "extract DST DSF multichannel.bat" and I appended each DSF multichannel album name with "(DSD MCH)" to intially differentiate from its DSD stereo counterpart.. As i said earlier, I will simply make a mch view that jremote will also use.

Oh, the DSF 5.1 folders are freaking huge. My 1000 ripped SACDs in DSF stereo are like 2.5TB; for mch we're gonna need a bigger boat!

[mojave]

That looks great. Do you have to connect the workclock output of two DAC's to a third or does the USB driver handle that?

Why did you choose to not use the Mytek 8x192 ADDA? It is multichannel and cheaper than three Stereo192 DACS. It also supports DSD:  "The new Mytek 8X192 features an optional DSD firmware with built in native 64x and 128x DSD."

[ted_b]

Mojave,
The ASIO driver handles the synching and channel mapping.  And I am very familiar with Mytek; Michal and I are very good friends over these past 2 years.  The 8X192 is not only older technology but it only allows DSD via something like a Sonoma workstation (SDIF, glass, etc).  There is no USB/firewire DSD implementation of it, and won't likely be.  Read the 100's of comments on CA about it vs the Stereo 192.   Also, once you own a Mytek, getting 2 more is not absurdly expensive (he says sheepishly) but this is just a proof of concept right now.  I'd think Mytek will prepare a package deal, with cables, USB hub, etc.

[ted_b]

BTW, PCM rocks too.  Just listened to Donald Fagen-Kamakiriad (DVD_A 24/96 5.1 flac mch files).  Channel trims seemed fine too.  Yeah!

[mojave]

Thanks, Ted. I know someone with a two channel system with a CAPS and JRiver for playback of DSD. Can a second Mytek be added for subwoofers?

This also looks like a nice way to get some good DACS for active crossovers using JRiver and Audiolense (both of which I am using).

[tubesguy2]

  Also, once you own a Mytek, getting 2 more is not absurdly expensive (he says sheepishly) but this is just a proof of concept right now.  I'd think Mytek will prepare a package deal, with cables, USB hub, etc.

Good idea. I'll have my butler drive the Bentley down to the dealership and see if I can clear enough on the sale to swing the package. 

[wisnon]

Your butler, what, what?

My dear sir, you have the chauffeur drive the valet down to dealership, like Lord Grantham, the butler is far too busy bossing around the downstairs staff to handle such a trifling matter.

If the Bentley is not enuff, sell an acre or a hundred to raise the cash! LoL

[Russtafarian]

That's COOL!  I have nearly 300 DSD 5.1 files waiting for a setup like this.  And you're right, at between 6 and 8 GB per album, they do use up a lot of hard drive space.

As I've posted before, I've had a poor-man's multi-channel setup running for the past 6 months.  I use Foobar to play 5.1 files via HDMI into an Oppo BDP-103 and the same Sony TAP 9000ES.  Foobar transcodes DSD DSF 5.1 files to 24/88 PCM on the fly.  This sounds really good, pretty damn amazing actually, but it's just a way station until I can get to 5.1 DSD streaming like you are doing.

If you have any of these titles in DSD 5.1, you are in for a real treat:

Depeche Mode - Violator
EW&F - Gratitude
Shaw, Atlanta SO - Brahms Requiem
Kodo - Mondo Head
Hank Jones - The Great Jazz Trio
Gene Harris - Listen Here
Marc-André Hamelin - Shostakovich Piano Concertos
Monty Alexander - Monty Meets Sly & Robby

Enjoy it and keep us posted on your progress.

Russ

[woodsyi]

Sounds like fun.  I am sure it sounds fabulous. 

I am sticking with stereo for now as I don't even have a TV down in the cave.  But you never know in this hobby...

[Atlplasma]

How about sitting in your listening position, browsing jremote, and pulling up a pure native 5.1 DSD rip of Beck-Sea Change, for playback in native DSD. And no, I don't have a Sonoma workstation sitting here! YES!!

Well, I mentioned in a few threads that I was getting ready to prototype a possible 5.1 pure DSD playback setup. The thought of using J River and jremote (ipad) to browse a multichannel catalog that includes native DSD 5.1 (and 3.0, etc) is a 2013 goal of mine. 2012 was a watershed for DSD-capable stereo DACS (I own 3, Metiner, Mytek, exasound).

Well..yesterday marks the first huge step in that goal!

Mytek delivered my third Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC yesterday Own one, demoing the seond for their newer hardware boards), along with a simple 4-port USB hub. My goal for this weekend coming up was to simply get something working, and I assumed it would be a lot of trial and error..even though Michal and Chebon (Mytek) had given me pretty good instructions going in.

Matt at J River had just released a beta version of JRMC that fixed a couple idiosyncrasies in 5.0 vs 5.1 playback, so i downloaded 18.0131, made sure Mytek's 133.1 Windows ASIO driver was loaded on my CAPS V2+ and hooked up the USB hub. I used some decent (and awful generic) USB cables to cobble together a three-port setup, and used the SOtM card to drive it (directly powered by the iFi). I thought the hub would need power but it didn't. The USBPAL driver screen indicates what goes where (hint: the oldest serial number gets main lf/rf, the next gets c/sw and the newest DAC gets ls/rs). I guessed right the first time! Go figure.

I use a tried-and-true analog multichannel preamp (Sony TAP-9000ES) for volume and analog channel trimming (so far done via ear only; I will drag out the Rat Shack digital SPL meter tonight). I created a MCh DSF parent folder, moved a few 5.1 DSF albums into it and had J Remote add the parent in auto-import. Voila. (My next step is to create a multichannel view and use it in jremote; the view rule will be simple..."channels greater than 2"). One of the DSF folders is the Pentatone sampler that includes test tones and channel id tracks.

First up, after confirming channels and doing simple trims, was Beck-Sea Change, a tremendous surround sound album. The clarity, tone, dynamics and deep bass of this thing, heard 1000 times before, was startling. The Mytek trio blew away (yes blew away) the Oppo 83SE in this first test. And channel trims weren't even done yet. Wow!

Stay tuned for more updates.

Here's what the setup looks like (stacked Myteks next to my CAPS V2+. The other thing is simply a gigabit ethernet switch, so my 2 channel setup would still have ethernet).




Updates:
Myteks are all stock. They were set for bypass volume. J River was setup for ASIO and bitstream "DSD" (not "DoP"). Rebooted initially as one of the DACS wasn't seeing the CAPS, and J River was having issues. Reboot took care of everything. I do not have Fidelizer running currently. Win 8 is un-tweaked currently (I've used Fidelizer to do that so far, short of a good list of changes). ISO's were extracted using "extract DST DSF multichannel.bat" and I appended each DSF multichannel album name with "(DSD MCH)" to intially differentiate from its DSD stereo counterpart.. As i said earlier, I will simply make a mch view that jremote will also use.

Oh, the DSF 5.1 folders are freaking huge. My 1000 ripped SACDs in DSF stereo are like 2.5TB; for mch we're gonna need a bigger boat!

Ted. Thanks once again for pushing the limits of what's possible with this hobby. It's my understanding that multichannel recordings are designed for specific listening positioning (in front of the orchestra, on stage with the players). Do you have a preference?

Also...

I wonder if this approach would work with the new Teac. You could buy three of those for about 1.5 the cost of a Mytek.

[ted_b]

Atlplasma,
Thanks for the nice comments.  i enjoy both audience perspective, as well as aggressive (usually on rock or progressive) immersive mixes too.  Even the TACET DVD_A classical pieces that have a string quartet positioned one in each corner speaker, are fun sometimes..as long as the recording is well done.    I especially like Eliot Schieners Grammy winning mixes for folks like Beck, Donald Fagen, etc.  And I like Jared Sacks' Channel Classics and Michael Bishop's Grammy winning Telarc mixes, both are more ambient mixes.  Horses for courses.

This idea should gather momentum.  A stacked set of Teacs would be cool (and small), but not sure they develop their own drivers..dunno.

[WC]

So no one makes a multi-channel DSD DAC? I was just curious. It seems a bit much to buy three DACs to get it to work.

[ted_b]

So no one makes a multi-channel DSD DAC? I was just curious. It seems a bit much to buy three DACs to get it to work.

It will happen, and soon.  Yes, it is a bit much.    But fun.

Here is a setup drawing I threw together:

[golfugh]

Ted
Nice work!  Have you tried the exaSound e18 yet?
Mark

[scorpion]

I don't know. I think stero will be OK. But I rather think multichannel don't will ever be so uninamously approved as 2 channel.
So for the best records ever to appear it is much better to concentrate on 2 channel performance. That's my opinion.

/Erling

[scorpion]

Going into detail. I do think that digital alterations are much more appropiate than to try to change analogue streams.
So for multichannel appeareance I do think digital change is more appropiate.

/Erling