[Rclark]

An audiophile has to learn early on that this is a give and take and no matter how bad you want a perfect system, it will not be...sure fun trying though!

Jim

Wait a minute Jim, I think that's bad advice to give a new audiophile.

That sounds like a mentality for someone who is ready to "settle" with what they have, but I think new audiophiles or those still in the hobby should be encouraged to push the boundaries as far as they can. Given we all have some history here, I'm not convinced even you yourself have done all you can, or used any of the more modern tools that are now out there, treatments, etc.

I mean, we all have ears. We all use our ears to listen to gear and place speakers in room. Beyond that, it's the tools that take you further. My ears can't make a waterfall graph in my head that shows me how many milliseconds I'm ringing at 70 hz, it's just not happening.

[medium jim]

Rclark:

The truth hurts sometimes....btw, everyone is waiting for you to send the PI cds to keep the tour alive!

Jim

[Rclark]

I messaged Dave, I don't have an address yet for the next person.

But it makes sense, right Jim? We all have ears. JtWrace has ears, Anand has ears, etc, but with additional tools, they've been able to enhance their listening rooms in ways ears alone can't do.

So I think this old school battle of ears vs gear for optimizing systems is really kind of silly in 2013. They aren't seperate approaches. One (tools+ears , because the ears never leave, do they) is just better.


 

[medium jim]

I messaged Dave, I don't have an address yet for the next person.

But it makes sense, right Jim? We all have ears. JtWrace has ears, Anand has ears, etc, but with additional tools, they've been able to enhance their listening rooms in ways ears alone can't do.

So I think this old school battle of ears vs gear for optimizing systems is really kind of silly in 2013.

Rclark, ya pretty silly...you should ask Wendell how he sets up systems, you might be surprised and at the same time learn from him!

Jim

[Rclark]

Wendall is 94 years old!  Wendell probably still uses a slide rule. If he isn't using modern methods, then I wouldn't use him as a reference for how to set up a listening room, don't care who he is.

Edit: was thinking Winey. But whatever. Diller too, if he's just plopping them where they sound nice and calling it a day, then that's not optimal, not what can be optimally achieved, and I think that is a major component of our hobby, is not leaving the performance of the room on the table.

[wushuliu]

I messaged Dave, I don't have an address yet for the next person.

But it makes sense, right Jim? We all have ears. JtWrace has ears, Anand has ears, etc, but with additional tools, they've been able to enhance their listening rooms in ways ears alone can't do.

So I think this old school battle of ears vs gear for optimizing systems is really kind of silly in 2013. They aren't seperate approaches. One (tools+ears , because the ears never leave, do they) is just better.

Yeah yeah yeah, the room the room blah blah blah. That's your new thing, we get it.   Doesn't have anything to with this thread. Just leave a pamphlet under the door. 

[Rclark]

I'm with it as far as hearing differences in gear though, I'm all on board with that. But there needs to be a distinction made between measurements as discussed here, in equipment, and hearing differences in gear, and measurements pertaining to room treatment. I got the idea Jim was kind of angling the argument that way.

The differences in gear, that's really cool, was a great presentation, thanks again for putting it up.

[medium jim]

Yeah yeah yeah, the room the room blah blah blah. That's your new thing, we get it.   Doesn't have anything to with this thread. Just leave a pamphlet under the door. 

+1

Jim

[Folsom]

Basically everyone can hear the difference between DAC's. They just have never considered to evaluate the differences, and hence not even realized there was a difference because the power of their minds conception of a stereo, etc, controls them.

If you setup a situation where they were blind to all the equipment, people would have a preference if you could get them to honestly invest in caring. Trouble is most people don't understand how brutal the music is on their ears and brains from bad stereos. They just know how to turn it off. It isn't their ears... it is their brains.

[bummrush]

Well when you  guys get this all guantified in the next half century please post it all on my gravesite.