New digital wonder amp from BlackStar, can make any tone, but does not model.

Rclark · « **on:** 14 Jan 2013, 09:32 am »

So Blackstar is an English company that has been in the tube amplifier business for quite some time, and they have a good relationship with a lot of professional rock musicians and such.

They are a heritaged, tube amplifier company, like Marshal, or Fender.

It seems for the last seven years they've been developing their new True Valve technology, which they are very emphatic to say is not based on the old modeling techniques, but that the wizards there at the company have been able to translate what a tube does into solid state circuitry, it's all very new.

It's basically the same thing a tube is doing, but they are getting circuitry to do it, with the same end result. Rather than old school modelling, which is they record the sounds of a tube amp and then apply that as a texture over the sound of the digital amp.. This is instead, a tube amp without tubes, indeed they've created a solid state tube amp.

Their slogan for these is also "Loud as Valve", meaning the 60 watt version will be the equivalent of a 60 watt tube amp as far as SPL capability (a normal digital modelling amp is much quieter than a tube amp). Welcome to the modern age, it seems they've bottled the bottle once and for all.

Another thing to mention is not only is the tech revolutionary, but the amp is packed with features and all sorts of connectivity, you can connect to a recording desk, or your PC, for example you can join the online community and download newly created user tones, there's just so much you can do with these, the footpedal coming out for them is packed with features as well, can store up to 128 different sounds, has all sorts of functionality..

And the price is nice.

These amps are not out here in the states yet, any day now, but the press on these and the general buzz is they are the real deal... It's all patent pending, but they are adamant that this is a new technology, and what follows below bears that out:

(Make sure to set each video to at least 720P and then full screen)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_57rNZCrOwk

^ reknowned session guitarist Jamie Humphreys discussing the amp, and demonstating why it is a new technology, and is not a "modelling" amplifier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Ld9_-PvqU

^ a very thorough demonstation of the amp and the various "valve" settings, and also all the included technology, this amp can do quite a lot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMjqLZalaLQ

^ the crew at Andertons Music in England giving the amp a very thorough shakedown run, very impressed are they.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFdXnGCyJT8

^ Jamie again, just strumming a bit and getting a bunch of different tones out of the amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAu8AcSvy1I

^ company True Valve technology promo ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI5sCrysLvQ

^ yet another in depth review

I'll be getting the ID 260 whenever they arrive in stock to ship...

jackman · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 01:53 pm »

I've got to hand it to you, you are a vet trusting guy. Every company that comes out with new items hypes them up with marketing info on why they are revolutionary. Black star is not a heritage company like Fender or Marshall. They are a new company recently launched by some ex-Marshall people. I've never heard their amps but they seem to get good reviews so I think they might be good.

I love the sound of tube guitar amps, good ones at least. Tube amps and SS amps have their strengths and weaknesses, but for overall tone, I've never heard a SS amp that can touch a good tube design. Not even close. SS amps are more versatile, more powerful, lighter weight and usually more bang for the buck than well made tube amps. Maybe these guys figured out a way to do SS better but I wouldn't bet on it.

You have a tendency to drink the Kool Aid before ever trying the product. It's cool the you are trusting and ready to try one if these but I would encourage you to compare it to a good tube amp before making any final conclusions. Check out a Mesa Boogie or good quality tube amp and hear for yourself. They are not cheap but there is a reason many pro players love tube amps.

Good luck

Jack

jackman · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 04:27 pm »

One more thing, I'm not dissing solid state. They have come a long way in recent years. Also, tube amps are much heavier and expensive. Oh, and you have to replace the tubes when they go bad. Solid state amps also have lots of versatility and can sound good clean. The difference is in the distortion. Tube amps, good ones at least, have a warm harmonic distortion that some people, including me, find to be heavenly. IMO, nothing sounds as good as real tube overdrive/distortion.

I've owned several decent SS amps, all of them promised tube sounding distortion, but none have delivered the real thing. I hope the Blackstar folks found the secret formula, but the amps I've played and owned from Vox, Marshall and Fender did not make me forget about the real thing. I have a Line 6 that I use for practice. It has lots of features and came highly rated at the time but its a toy, and the distortion is not as sweet as my little Epi Valve Jr that I picked up for a hundred bucks. The Epiphone is nowhere near the Victoria but it also cost less than 1/10 th as much. The Victoria was amazing but not very versite.

Rclark · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 06:09 pm »

Should have been clearer, no they aren't an ancient company, but they're not new, they've been around some time now, and a lot of their employees are ex Marshal staff, the guys who founded the company were long into their careers.

As far as drinking Kool Aid as you say, and let's be honest here, I have only touted one product before launch, and, whoah, turned out I was on to something there. You even own a few packets of the grape... Right?

Pour yourself a glass my man.

Watch the videos before you leap to conclusions. Seriously, watch em. I've also chatted with people from other forums, I'm doing my research. It's 2013. There's no reason why this can't be possible. They can regrow a missing limb, right from your body, with a nano powder, I don't think it wasn't inevitable that someone would crack this one.

Rclark · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 06:22 pm »

I do want to try a bunch of amps, but the pure functionality and versatility here is undeniable. This here is the obvious choice out of everything I've checked out, for first guitar amp.

It clearly sounds great too, some of those videos are very well recorded, and the amp has a limitless range of tones. Make sure to let them play a while, some of the tones they get are quite startling.

(oh, and of course I've heard guitar tube amps, who hasn't

, they are the most ubiquitous type there is. Every concert ever, friends with bands, etc, recorded music. In that sense I listen to tubed guitar amps daily)

I can't say every concert ever, there are a lot of professional guitarists who prefer solid state. Big names that would surprise you.

jackman · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 06:40 pm »

There is a big difference between listening with your own ears before making a decision and claiming something is a major breakthrough before even hearing it. If you don't understand this I can't help you.

I have never made claims about something being a game changer without doing my homework first. Also, YouTube videos can't demonstrate an amp's tone. Black star is a new company and I hope the amp sounds as good as stated. Maybe a YouTube video and some slick marketing text is enough to convince you but ill wait to hear it in person before chugging the Kool aid.

So far, I've never heard a solid state guitar amp that can touch a good tube amp's tone, especially distorted tone. None have even come close. Lots have claimed to have solved this riddle over the years, none have succeeded. It will take more than second hand reviews and videos to convince me.

Rclark · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 06:45 pm »

Well, we'll see, I will I guess.

No I've also chatted with people who have heard these in person and they liked them a lot, said the claims are true. Said it has a fat bottom end and sounds like a freaking tube amp.. Jackman, try playing the videos through your stereo, where you can get a full sound. No, it's not like being there, but it is like being there, just a few steps removed. You are still listening to what that amp can do, the range of sounds. It's not 100% like being in your room, but you can't say you don't get a very good idea.

Most of those were recorded well (not just a camera mic)

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 07:06 pm »

I wish they had A/B'd the Blackstar with an all-tube guitar amp in the video. I'd then have some sort of reference. It's kinda hard to judge just how 'tube-like' the Blackstar truly is without a reference. The thing tube guitar amps do really well is punch and dynamics. The Blackstar seems to have that but, again, it's hard to say for sure. Keep us informed once you get yours. I still haven't figured out how they can claim it's not a modeling amp though. If you can select the power tube sound (which manipulates the source digitally to recreate that sound) then you've modeled the output after a particular class of tube amp, haven't you? They're just playing around with semantics, IMO.

Rclark · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 07:13 pm »

No Ericus, you can get snippets of how it works from the various videos. It isn't a sonic texture to sound like a tube amp, it's they're getting the actual voltage response of the amp, to respond the same way a tube would.

You're right about having them play another amp, but in a sense you can get that from The Andertons video, those guys have over a thousand videos and they have demo'd countless tube amps (that I've seen) from those chairs. I like that particular video because those guys are really pretty unbiased, and they wring the amp out good. But you can sort of run another vid of them demoing a Fender or a Marshal or an Orange and go back and forth here.

I wanted to go demo live, but they won't be in stock in my area yet. I feel like it's the right choice though, especially with all the other technology packed into it. You get way more than just an amp.

jackman · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 07:33 pm »

Will do. There are lots if things I hate about tubes. The amps are heavy, expensive, and generally less reliable than solid state. Good luck with the playing! I look forward to reading about your progress.

Cheers
Jack

Rclark · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 07:40 pm »

Thanks Jackman, I was actually about to strap up and do some warmups and scales (well, in my case, scale, or just sca.. my finger movement isn't anywhere yet). It's pretty frustrating being a beginner, but the Rocksmith software measures performance and I am happy to report daily improvement.

(right now my amp is Magnestands, Legend, Ncores, Rocksmith software.. very good!)

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 08:23 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 14 Jan 2013, 07:13 pm

No Ericus, you can get snippets of how it works from the various videos. It isn't a sonic texture to sound like a tube amp, it's they're getting the actual voltage response of the amp, to respond the same way a tube would.

You just described exactly what a modeling amp does!

I think I've figured out the confusion. In the Jamie Humphries video you posted, he defines 'modeling amp' as Blackstar defines it. He says (paraphrased) 'this isn't a modeling amp. We have not tried to emulate the sound of specific brands and models of amps.' So I was right. They aren't modeling amp brands but amp classes. But it does model. Semantics. All I've read on their site and heard in your videos describes the technologies used in other modeling amps. I have no beef with you and my argument is not aimed at you at all. I just wish Blackstar would own up to the fact that this is a non-brand specific modeling amp. I'm sure it's a wonderful amp, just not a ground-breaking technological advancement as they have marketed. Remember, I currently own 2 Vox modelers. I know they are capable of sounding really good. And the versatility of modelers vs. non-modeler is incredible. OK. I'm done. We don't need to belabor this point any further. Enjoy your fine amp when it arrives.

Rclark · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 08:32 pm »

Well, in all the material I've seen, they go way out of their way to emphasize that this is not like older technologies, they've applied for a patent too. They're pretty bold about it. So we'll see.

Either way, I'm stoked. It won't be the only amp. I'm gonna have to get a bass amp eventually too. I'll probably just buy a used tube amp for that.

HAL · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 08:55 pm »

Interesting as Bob Carver did the Transfer Function Modification (TFM) series solid state amps years ago to sound like tube gear. IIRC, he started with the Silver Seven tube amp he designed and then made TFM amps that sounded very similar. One I think was the Silver Seven T amp that was solid state.

Should be an interesting experiement!

randytsuch · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 09:00 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 14 Jan 2013, 08:32 pm

Well, in all the material I've seen, they go way out of their way to emphasize that this is not like older technologies, they've applied for a patent too. They're pretty bold about it. So we'll see.

Either way, I'm stoked. It won't be the only amp. I'm gonna have to get a bass amp eventually too. I'll probably just buy a used tube amp for that.

AFAIK, patents are public domain (not sure about patent pending) so you can find and read them.
Would be curious what they are actually applying for in their patent.

Randy

medium jim · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 09:15 pm »

Not sure about Bob's (Carver) amps, but lets suppose someone invented something that mimics a tube or do the same thing, it will still have to have the rest of the amp built like a tube amp otherwise it is a modeling amp no matter how new the technology is.

The technology has come a long way since Line 6 introduced modeling amps about 15 years ago. Fender makes a series of modeling amps that are damn good and have all the tones you could ever want. While they sound good, do not have the same feel of a tube guitar amp.

I would go with SS or Class D for Bass Guitar amplification and stay with tubes for guitar.

Jim

jackman · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 09:53 pm »

We may not always agree on audio gear but Medium Jim knows his stuff when it comes to guitars. Solid state is great for bass. That blackstar is a modeling amp, not that modeling is a bad thing. Modeling amps are getting better every year and you can't beat them for bang for the buck. They just don't don't sound as good as a good tube amp. In fairness, neither do most bargain tube amps. For the money, modeling amps from Fender, Vox, etc., sound good enough for most of us. And they have lots of features.

Crimson · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 10:14 pm »

One of the guitarists in my band recently got a Carvin V3 amp and cab. Very nice for the money.

medium jim · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 10:38 pm »

Steve Vai and Joe Walsh are known to use Carvin amps.

Jim

Early B. · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jan 2013, 10:41 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 14 Jan 2013, 06:09 pm

They can regrow a missing limb, right from your body, with a nano powder,...

Screw BlackStar. Got any links on regrowing limbs?