[wushuliu]

Getting back on topic....

What is the best way to internally brace or dampen these speakers?
What has been tried and what works the best?

Easiest options would be Danny Richie's No Rez, Parts Express Sonic Barrier 3 Layer, Blackhole 5, etc. They are a little pricey though for the convenience of being able to cut and paste. Cheaper but more labor intensive would be vinyl floor tile w/ adhesive spray from Lowes Home Depot, Plasticlay, sure others will have recommend more. I think it's just as worthwhile to improve the Pioneers considering most budget speakers under say $500 tend to have cabs as the weak link anyway. The fact that they are $77 is only because it's pioneer - they'd cost a lot more if they were from a smaller company so why not treat them with the same care and deference?

[zs3889]

Hi guys! I am new to the forum and this is my first post here!!

So here is my story:

I just moved into a new place and I am looking to get myself a 2.0 system. This is a pretty small room (10x8) and I will be hooking the speaker to my computer, and obviously on a computer desk, so it will be a nearfield listening. I am sharing the house with other people and the sound isolation of this room isn't very good. I don't want to create too much excess noise with a 2.1 system that comes with a subwoofer. I am using my headphone and earphone right now and I really want to get a pair of good speaker as I can't stand long hours with headphone/earphone on my ears.  I have been looking and reading reviews of different 2.0 systems and it seems the BS22 is hard to beat at this price point (well within my budget). The other 2.0 that I have in mind is the Audio Engine A2 but it sells for $200.

I am very new to this studio monitor kind of speaker, I have been using 2.1 system for computer in the past. So I have a few question I would like to ask before making any decision!

- I just went through the 21 pages on this thread and it seems like most of the BS22's are used with a TV set and none with a computer. I was wondering will the BS22 perform as well for a nearfield listening? I would say about 3 feet away.

- In order too connect the BS22 to my computer, what kind of instruments do I need? AFAIK I would need an amplifier, correct? If yes, it would be great if I can get one of that for less than $50, an affordable one!


Thanks!!

[charmerci]

I'm on a budget. I used 5 lbs of nondrying clay - for about 10 bucks. (Though I'd recommend 6 - I didn't want to wait to the next day to buy another pound.) It took me about a couple of hours to do it.

Starting at post 4037 - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1278774/pioneers-speaker-genius-hits-low-price-point/4020

This is what I did and there are my impressions.  At post 4040, Bill says to use simple internal cross braces.

The speaker is definitely improved by doing this - I know, I actually did it.

[trackball02]

charmerci, thanks for the clay tip.

Originally, I was not going to touch these speakers. However, I came across several pounds of left over clay after I packed my Technics D2 turntable plinth a while back. That hollow plastic base needed something. I guess the same can be applied to lining the speaker. Instead of letting it sit in the box, I might as well just use it in the Pioneers.

[charmerci]

charmerci, thanks for the clay tip.

Originally, I was not going to touch these speakers. However, I came across several pounds of left over clay after I packed my Technics D2 turntable plinth a while back. That hollow plastic base needed something. I guess the same can be applied to lining the speaker. Instead of letting it sit in the box, I might as well just use it in the Pioneers.

Let us know what you think. Make sure you use a good familiar recording for a before and after comparison. (You did read the posts and my warning on the tight fitting screws?)

[srb]

If you use beeswax, paraffin, soap or silicone spray on the screw threads they will likely go back in without incident.

Steve

[avahifi]

If you are going to modify speakers, just do one of them first.

Then set them side by side, switch your preamp to mono, and use the balance control to switch from one to the other and see if you can hear any difference.  It would be useful to leave the room and have another person swap the speakers (or not) and listen again to remove the "I just made it better" bias.

Now you will really know if your gold input jacks, gonzo internal wires, or whatever. really makes any useful difference.

Frank  VA

[trackball02]

Excellent comments everyone. The screws are very tight, but not bad if they are turned very slowly. I'll rub with paraffin. I'll try packing only one of the the speakers first and try the mono comparison.

By putting a couple of pounds of clay inside the speaker, doesn't that change the internal volume sufficiently to change the sound regardless if there is improved dampening?

[avahifi]

Correct, a couple of pounds of never hardening plastic clay probably will change the internal cabinet volume of a tiny speaker enough to make a sonic difference, and that won't necessary be good.

I would advise that you just coat the metal surfaces of the drivers themselves with a 1/8 inch thick layer, making sure you don't block any vent holes or interfere with driver motion.

You can soften the plastic clay in a microwave oven.  Just try this for a few seconds at a time or you will end up with a pool of goo.

Regards,

Frank

PS Make sure you do just one speaker first and then compare.  I actually did this at B&W in Worthing, England many years ago.  I brought the damping clay with me and talked them into letting me do one of a matched pair of their high end small speakers.  After I put the damped one back together nobody could tell which one I had done by just looking at them.  We set them up in their sound lab and did the comparison.  I was one of a whole bunch of B&W dealers there on a factory junket.  In direct AB testing everyone preferred one of the speakers, it was a no brainer choice.  We then opened them up and sure enough the one with the clay damped suspension was the hands down winner.  Later B&W told me that careful use of their laser interferometer told them that acoustic output from the cast speaker frame was only 10 dB down from the output of the speaker cone at some frequencies.  Nasty distortion they had previously overlooked completely.

Frank

[Bob in St. Louis]

Home Depot sells one pound 'bricks' of black putty for $1.
It's the stuff you use around the HVAC and electrical lines where they enter your house to seal up the holes.
It never hardens so it won't vibrate loose and chip or crumble away and will forever be moldable.
Works great for dampening speaker baskets.

[trackball02]

Frank, I like the concept of just coating the metal surfaces of the drivers.  I have never heard of doing that. What a smart idea.

Bob is this the stuff from Home Depot?   

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-14-oz-Plumber-s-Putty-311662/202312407#.Ui0iVsaTj84

[Todd Willhoit]

He is probably referring to this:

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-Duct-Seal-Compound-Plugs-10-Pack-DS-110/100212441/

[charmerci]

Again, we're talking here about cabinet resonance - not speaker or crossover parts quality. So if you want to make these comparisons - make sure you crank up those speakers to make those cabinets resonate and things vibrating!

[Bob in St. Louis]

He is probably referring to this:

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-Duct-Seal-Compound-Plugs-10-Pack-DS-110/100212441/

Thanks Todd, Yes, that's closer to what I had in mind. Although the link only shows a thumbnail with no text to describe it.

[avahifi]

Don't use so called plumbers putty.  It may have an acid component that could corrode connection wires or voice coils over time.  Use plasticlay or Platilina  which is available from art stores.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/sculpture-house-prima-plastilina-clay/

Frank Van Alstine

[avahifi]

By the way, coating the baskets of all the drivers in almost any speaker system with Plastilina will make a useful improvement technically.  Any spurious output from any part of the speaker system except for the driven elements is wrong.  The improvement may be small, or large, but it always going to be an improvement.

One step in doing this is to get a CD with a white noise track (or use FM tuner interchannel noise) and first do one speaker, set them side by side, and then with white noise as a source you can really easily hear the difference between the basket damped and the original speaker.

I have told every speaker builder I know to try this and I am universally ignored. 

Try it, I guarantee you will like it.

Frank

[Ericus Rex]

By putting a couple of pounds of clay inside the speaker, doesn't that change the internal volume sufficiently to change the sound regardless if there is improved dampening?

Anyone given any thought to dampening the cabinet externally?

[Todd Willhoit]

Better link for clay:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-Duct-Seal-Compound-Plugs-10-Pack-DS-110/100212441?keyword=Gardner+Bender+Duct+Seal+Compound#.Ui4F4-Qo5aQ

[charmerci]

Anyone given any thought to dampening the cabinet externally?

I've been listening to these internally-changed-volume speakers almost every day for 5 months now. Whatever changes happened, I like them. $100 bucks and a little work - they're a deal.

Anyway, one or two internal cross braces are probably just as effective and won't change the internal volume very much.

[Captainhemo]

The home made no res would also work well.  Get some of the thick  self stick  vinyl floor panels from HD for about $1 each (double em up if you  have to)   and then glue some 1" open cell foam   over that
This stuff works well
http://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/acoustic.html

Or as someone else mentioned earlier,  youcould always just pick up a  sheet of no res. One sheet should easily do both speakers but that's a bit more $$

Not sure how carried away everyone wants to get with these  but it may also be an idea to  round the edges of any internal bracing you may choose to install

-jay