Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers are really nice.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #140 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 03:38 pm »

As we speak, quietglow is having his mind blown by these speakers...

quietglow · « **Reply #141 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 04:22 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 30 Mar 2013, 03:38 pm

As we speak, quietglow is having his mind blown by these speakers...

So I text roscoeiii this morning saying I'd read this thread and was intrigued. I planned on stopping by Best Buy today to grab a set.

He replies, of course: I just got a set.

So I am driving these with my Dynaco ST-70 and they are improbable -- that's the word that keeps coming to mind. I have no idea where the bass is coming from. Very fluid, musical mids. The highs seem a little plastic or brittle, but they were new in the box an hour ago, so I am expecting some break-in.

Roscoeiii and I were listening to some monitors yesterday at Decibel (in Chicago). I'll skip the names, but one set was in the 3k range and the other set was close to 1k used. These Pioneers sound close enough to being in that range to boggle the mind at the cost.

Joe

AndrewJ · « **Reply #142 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 04:46 pm »

I think we can all relax and breathe

I appreciate all the great things that have been said, and the support.
I'ts not about whether I'm thick or thin skinned. I just haven't had the impression that anyone is out to do me down or bolster their own cred.
I am extraordinarilly busy, so if I don't respond immediately to any particulay comment it's not because I have taken offence, it's only because I'm working on my next project!
As for comparing to a $6K speaker, I don't expect to come close. I just expect that mine will show that it's still possible to care at 1/24th the price and produce something that is enjoyable to listen to. In fact, I could accuse myself of doing much worse....comparing them to my $80k speakers

I have previously said that I welcomed Dennis seeing if he can make improvements. I know I can! The trick is building it to the price it currently sells at. Adding 3 caps, an inductor or two and the odd resistor will probably allow better performance if done right, but I didn't have that option.
Take the BS22 for example. A lot of competing speakers at that price point have a single capacitor on the tweeter, or if you are lucky, an additional inductor on the woofer. That doesn't allow for much voicing. You are then at the mercy of the driver response, both in terms of what you can engineer in as a response, and of production variability. I managed to put in a six element network on the BS22, and eight on the FS52. Twelve, and everyone would have thought I had lost my mind

The FS52 is actually quite complex in its interaction between the three bass drivers, their impedance levels, the network that I use to roll out the two bass units and roll in the bass /mid, and how they couple together acoustically in the common enclosure volume. The tweeter is common between the 22 and the 52, but works differently because of the differences in the midbass drivers.
I am fully aware of these differences in sound, and might even get it right next time

Meanwhile, they provide a good basis for tweaking should you have the skills to do so. Just realize of course that you void the warranty by doing so, so be careful. If something goes wrong you would have to purhase a new pair.....Oh, Wait, what am I saying...go ahead: Do anything you want with them

neekomax · « **Reply #143 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 05:02 pm »

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for taking part in the discussion, and thanks also for some great speakers;l I use the Pioneer center in my 5.1 system, and I love it (although I did take the liberty of spray painting it gloss white to match the other speakers- Audioengine P4s).

I wanted the ask you: I'm a big fan of the KEF Uni-Q driver. Were you involved in developing that, and if so, any of that work carry over into the stuff you're doing now at TAD and/or Pioneer?

I'm working my way up to the Reference 1s, btw. Very gently.

avahifi · « **Reply #144 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 05:15 pm »

Thanks Andrew, I am really glad you are here on AC and at one twenty-fourth the price the FS-52s certainly are enjoyable to listen to. My thoughts were more centered on what if you had the budget so they only were at one twelfth the price of my own in house standards?

Which speakers would I be picking nits about then?

Remind me to tell you about Plasti-clay sometime. That is my next in house project for the BS22s.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #145 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 06:13 pm »

I would only make one small comment about proposed modifications of either the BS-22 or FS-52. No one was upset when everyone on the planet decided they need to modify the Best Buy Insignia speaker, everyone jumped on board with their suggestions. Perhaps that was because the designer was anonymous. Over on the Polk forum the place is rife with mods for their speakers, it's a company sponsored site and no one takes offense. I would think Mr. Jones would take it as a great compliment that owners think his economical designs are so good that they are an excellent platform for modification.

I'm a little embarrassed that some AC members think it's their duty to "protect" either Andrew Jones or Pioneer from either critiques of or modifications to their products. I think both entities are strong enough to stand on their own. Let's all remember it's the Cheap and Cheerful circle with the emphasis on Cheerful. I hope Mr. Jones is having as much fun talking about this wonderful product and interacting with the owners as we are with it. Personally I'm looking forward to the proposed modifications and how their received.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #146 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 06:21 pm »

In addition to playing around with crossover mods, I'd be interested in thoughts on modding the cabinets. Probably a bigger payoff for the 52s than the 22s, but with a speaker built to this price point, the cabinet could probably be reinforced or otherwise modded to bump up their performance as well.

That said, just listened with quietglow to my pair that he is borrowing on his Dynaco 70. Really impressive speaker. Images superbly, and great sound overall. Also didn't seem too sensitive to placement, besides getting some additional bass when a bit closer to the rear wall.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #147 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: Letitroll98 on 30 Mar 2013, 06:13 pm

I would only make one small comment about proposed modifications of either the BS-22 or FS-52. No one was upset when everyone on the planet decided they need to modify the Best Buy Insignia speaker, everyone jumped on board with their suggestions. Perhaps that was because the designer was anonymous. Over on the Polk forum the place is rife with mods for their speakers, it's a company sponsored site and no one takes offense. I would think Mr. Jones would take it as a great compliment that owners think his economical designs are so good that they are an excellent platform for modification.

I'm a little embarrassed that some AC members think it's their duty to "protect" either Andrew Jones or Pioneer from either critiques of or modifications to their products. I think both entities are strong enough to stand on their own. Let's all remember it's the Cheap and Cheerful circle with the emphasis on Cheerful. I hope Mr. Jones is having as much fun talking about this wonderful product and interacting with the owners as we are with it. Personally I'm looking forward to the proposed modifications and how their received.

Good points. This is what cheep n cheer is about.

Mark Korda · « **Reply #148 on:** 30 Mar 2013, 09:07 pm »

Hi Wayner, good to have you back. These Pioneer speakers are getting so many great complements that I feel I need to go out and get a pair even though I don't need speakers right now. Rarely does that happen. Pretend Andrew Jones didn't reply to this thread. Now pretend I 'm at a blind folded listening session and I have no idea what speaker is playing against another or a few pairs. I know you like the Dyna-A25xl's and I like the whole Dyna line from 1969 to 1978. If I could not see what was playing, stone cold sober, or pretty loose on lagers and a Willie Nelson fatty on hand and heard the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR vs. any of those Dyna's I mentioned,what would you think I would pick, making sure I could not see any finish or size and also not knowing what I was listening to? Has chasing bass in a full range speaker system gone the way of the Dodo bird with our horrible economy? Can I approach the sound of a Magico,Wilson,or Rockport with a real good sub and these small wonders with fine tuning my ear to room surroundings and crossover frequency? Unless theres a speaker called the Enigma,may be Andrew Jones should of called them that. I can't wait to hear em....Mark Korda

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #149 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 02:22 am »

Quote from: Mark Korda on 30 Mar 2013, 09:07 pm

Unless theres a speaker called the Enigma,may be Andrew Jones should of called them that. I can't wait to hear em....Mark Korda

Enigma's all.

Mark Korda · « **Reply #150 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 05:24 am »

Letitroll,thanks for the heads up,I didn't know.....Andrew J., I can't wait to hear them!. I'm 56 and remember the Pioneer 185 watt receivers in the 70's,and the turntable that was like the Sherman Tank,the PL-12 from Pioneer that a lot of my friends relied on. If Bernie Mitchell is still alive he would be so proud of your acomplishment......Mark Korda

Ryan45872 · « **Reply #151 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 01:12 pm »

Looks like Best Buy is running a special this week on the Pioneers.

https://deals.bestbuy.com/#!/audio+amp+mp32

Ryan

avahifi · « **Reply #152 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 02:30 pm »

Thanks for the Best Buy Pioneer sale heads up. You have to scroll right to about page 22 or so of their current sale stuff to find the Pioneer speakers.

They have the matching SW-8MK2 powered subwoofer on sale for $111 and I could not resist and ordered one of these to go along with the BS22 minis discussed so much herein.

The SW-8MK2 has a 100W built in plate amp with line and speaker level inputs, adjustments for level, crossover frequency and phase. It has an 8 inch down firing bass speaker and a front port. I found a couple of user reviews that tend to say it has cleaner bass than others in this price class or even several hundred dollars more. Only short term down side I saw was spring loaded push wires in holes speaker wire connections. So much for using your gonzo cables! I plan on using the line level inputs anyway, has left and right channel RCA jack inputs for this.

I will report on these as soon as I get them up and running here in a few days.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

srb · « **Reply #153 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 31 Mar 2013, 02:30 pm

Only short term down side I saw was spring loaded push wires in holes speaker wire connections. So much for using your gonzo cables! I plan on using the line level inputs anyway, has left and right channel RCA jack inputs for this.

I know what you mean, I would rather see standard binding posts (even cheap ones) and for some reason I always feel a little better about a subwoofer if it has no speaker inputs at all, rather than spring-loaded terminals!

The other thing Frank, is that it has a captive power cord, so you won't be able to use your $3500 power hose.

Steve

neekomax · « **Reply #154 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: Ryan45872 on 31 Mar 2013, 01:12 pm

Looks like Best Buy is running a special this week on the Pioneers.

https://deals.bestbuy.com/#!/audio+amp+mp32

Ryan

I just ordered the floorstanders on sale (plus a $40 gift card I had laying around) to give to my very close friend for his birthday. He's a musician like me, and has remarked on my system and how great is it to have good sound at home, but otherwise he's a civilian. Can't wait to find out what he thinks. His wife might hate me forever if this launches the obsession

.

jtwrace · « **Reply #155 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 04:13 pm »

Quote from: AndrewJ on 30 Mar 2013, 04:46 pm

I know I can! The trick is building it to the price it currently sells at. Adding 3 caps, an inductor or two and the odd resistor will probably allow better performance if done right, but I didn't have that option.

Hello Andrew

Would you be willing to share what you would do to these to improve them for us DIY guys?

Flyquail56 · « **Reply #156 on:** 1 Apr 2013, 07:26 pm »

I see on the Pioneer website that the MSRP has just gone up $30.00 on the BS22, FS52, and the subwoofer. Still a screaming deal though.

charmerci · « **Reply #157 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 12:28 am »

Quote from: Flyquail56 on 1 Apr 2013, 07:26 pm

I see on the Pioneer website that the MSRP has just gone up $30.00 on the BS22, FS52, and the subwoofer. Still a screaming deal though.

I guess that means if you're thinking about it - better buy them now while they are on sale because it looks like they won't be anymore.

ArthurDent · « **Reply #158 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 01:26 am »

fwiw Amazon has the floorstanders on sale as well, "see price in cart". Appears to be same as BB.

MLS · « **Reply #159 on:** 4 Apr 2013, 12:52 am »

I have my $77 Pioneers SP-BS22-LR's sitting on some stands I picked up for $25. I am using 1980's something Nikko integrated amp that I picked up for $20. Also a Toshiba DVD player as a source that I got for about 15 minutes of caulking. Cables are Kimber 4TC speaker cables I picked up for $30 and Monoprice interconnect cable that was probably @ $3.

So for just shy of $160 I have a very cheap and cheerful system that sounds very nice. The SP-BS22-LR's image very well, throw a nice soundstage and are very well balanced only missing the lower octave that you would not expect a 4" diver to touch. As I said earlier I am really enjoying them and I am very pleased with my purchase.

MLS