[srb]

*Can't figure out how to post named links so here's the URL: http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202788724?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=speaker+pins&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=202788724#.UVS_fqLYh8E

Easy -

1.  Type the name for the URL you want to use:  GE Flat Speaker Pins
2.  Highlight the name
3.  Click the Insert Hyperlink button on the toolbar and paste in the URL

GE Flat Speaker Pins

Steve

[MLS]

I picked up a pair yesterday at BB for $77.  I am very please with the way they sound.  They are a very enjoyable speaker to listen to in a secondary system or over achieving budget system.

I could not be happier with my purchase.

Thanks to Andrew for his efforts and personal insight to this great little speaker!

Scott

[ltr317]

Frank,

So you're saying the tweeter between the bookshelf BS22 and the floor standers are different?  I wonder why since it would be more economical to share the tweeter for both models at this low price point. 

Cheers,
Paul Mah

[Cacophonix]

Frank,

So you're saying the tweeter between the bookshelf BW22 and the floor standers are different?  I wonder why since it would be more economical to share the tweeter for both models at this low price point. 

Cheers,
Paul Mah

Yeh, i had the same question after reading Frank's assessment. I thought the tweeter was the same ...

[charmerci]

The mid-range drivers are 5.25" instead of 4" so there's a different crossover and the tweeters are probably "asked" to do more and being inexpensive can't handle it as well.

Plus-

I think I'm more bothered than you are by the veiled and recessed character of the upper midrange and lower treble.  The tweeter definitely runs hot, although it is rolled off pretty sharply and early at the bottom end.  If it were merely hot, the fix would be trivial.  But the larger problem is that the midrange is having to handle more of the lower treble than it can do transparently.  I've designed an add-on crossover mod that hands over more of the chores to the tweeter and rolls the midrange off more steeply.  That definitely fills things in and adds detail.  But I may be asking more out of the tweeter than it can handle.

[srb]

The FS52 floorstander has its soundfield affected by the addition of a midrange driver, but the tweeter, which I presume to be identical, is crossed over at the same 3KHz in both speakers.

Steve

[Russell Dawkins]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the model to get the Pioneer SR 21-LR? My impression is that these are a little up scale from and only marginally more expensive than the BR 22-LR, if at all.

I got the impression that the 21 was making Pioneer too little money because of the expensive parts and assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the 22 is the replacement designed to be more cost-effective. Yes, it is specified as being 1dB more sensitive, but that wouldn't deter me. I love my SR 21-LRs, especially with the ports stuffed with short bundles of drinking straws to tame the resonant (but extraordinary-for-its-size) bass.

[charmerci]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the model to get the Pioneer SR 21-LR? My impression is that these are a little up scale from and only marginally more expensive than the BR 22-LR, if at all.

There was a previous poster in this thread (I'm pretty sure) who said that the 21's were a bit smoother (less edgier?) but the 22's did everything else better.

[srb]

I read quite a few short user reviews from various sites, and based on that my impression and guestimate was that of the people who owned both, 2 out of 3 preferred the new SP-BS22-LR and 1 out of 3 preferred the previous SP-BS21-LR.

According to Andrew Jones, the driver and crossover changes gave slightly better sound, while some other changes, like not routing out recesses for the drivers, simply made it slightly more economical to manufacture.

Steve

[Russell Dawkins]

Please excuse me; I was talking about the SP BS 41-LR which I own, not the 21-LR which I haven't heard.

I get the impression that anything in the Pioneer line in which Andrew had a hand would be good value, and those TAD TSM-2201-LRs which Wayner mentioned must sound pretty nice as well. I haven't seen that sort of woofer cone topography since the 1950s or 60s, and I can't remember the maker. It was a 15" with a series of raised protrusions all around the flare. They were used as studio monitors and apparently sounded very good.

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

[wushuliu]

per dennis at AH forum:

Here's a progress report on my experiences with the FS52 towers and attempts to work up a mod. It's very tricky for me to say much about the sound of the stock version, since I have a conflict of interest. I'll just say that you get a heck of a lot of speaker for the money, but there are some things you just can't do (even if you're Andrew Jones) and still come in on budget. The 2.5 configuration adds to the complexity and cost. After listening to the speaker carefully, measuring it, tracing through the stock crossover, modeling it, and futzing, my opinion is that it would take more components to get the midrange out of the way sooner and to let the tweeter handle more of the chore in the lower treble. It's not exactly a state-of-the-art tweeter, and it needs to be rolled off fairly sharply to avoid overloading, but I think I was able to improve the clarity and presence of the speaker by reshaping the tweeter response and using a steeper roll-off slope on the midrange to get its breakup mode (which is not all that severe) suppressed further. I used the top of the cabinet as the design axis to avoid a crossover suckout at the normal listening position, which would be above the tweeter axis on this short tower. I also voiced the tweeter down so that it was flat with the midrange except for a peak at 15 kHz that I couldn't get rid of. My approach was to keep the stock crossover as is, and to simply add an additional circuit for ease of modification and economy. I added two resistors, 1 inductor, and 3 capacitors per side. The total parts cost is $30 - $40/pr depending on the quality of the capacitors used. I have to document everything and get someone to try out a Beta pair before I make the design available. Any current owners of 52's that would like to try out a pair for me to make sure the changes I've made are really going to make owners happy? The closer to Washington, D.C., the better. I'll pay shipping both ways if it's not too far.

[Wayner]

Perhaps you guys with the big egos, have chased Andrew away.

It always seems when we get a nice guy that is a show stopper, a bunch of folks here have to scare them off. I just wanted to know about some mechanical issues, some of you had to show off how "smart you are" evaluating 6K speakers to $156 dollar speakers.

Shame on you.

It's embarrassing.

Wayner

[srb]

Perhaps you guys with the big egos, have chased Andrew away.

It always seems when we get a nice guy that is a show stopper, a bunch of folks here have to scare them off. I just wanted to know about some mechanical issues, some of you had to show off how "smart you are" evaluating 6K speakers to $156 dollar speakers.

Shame on you.

It's embarrassing.

I guess you didn't realize that it was Frank Van Alstine who compared the Pioneers to a $6K speaker, the Salk HT3.  I didn't get the impression that he was trying to show off how smart he was or that he chased Andrew Jones away, nor should he feel any shame or embarassment.

He in fact had good things to say about the Pioneer FS52.

I don't understand your post.

Steve

[Wayner]

I did realize it and thought that the comparison was way out of line, and way over board. I thought it was way over the top. Just my opinion on the tread. It was like comparing a ____ with a way over the top _____.

Wayner

[Wayner]

Andrew is a classy guy. I read his speaker design forum in the Absolute Sound and it was very interesting. From his point of view, i would never cross his line. let him develop his systems. To have Dennis Murphy work on "correcting" his speaker cross-over systems is, well good for Dennis. I find it amusing.

Wayner

[jackman]

Wayner,

Relax, I don't think Andrew Jones is thin-skinned and I can't imagine he would take offense over anything in this thread, or Dennis' mods.  Dennis is a good guy and is very humble and respectful.  Also, with regard to the mods he developed for the 52's, AJ admitted he is not surprised someone could improve on the design, with a more complex crossover.   In developing this line of speakers, he was constrained by a strict budget and had to draw the line somewhere.

Frank started this thread and it led to some very positive comments about the new Pioneer speakers.  Heck, I even bought a pair, my second one, because of a thread like this one.  These things are really nice and I look forward to Dennis Murphy's mods.  He is a talented designer in his own right and he has always been very generous with his time and support to the DIY community.

This is a fun thread and I hope Andrew Jones, and the usual crew, continues the discussion. 

Cheers

Jack

[cujobob]

Shame on you? Did he really just say that?

Andrew's probably a busy guy and he doesn't have to post here. Don't be so dramatic. And comparing budget speakers to reference speakers is not out of line...it gives one a frame of reference.

[jtwrace]

Perhaps you guys with the big egos, have chased Andrew away.

It always seems when we get a nice guy that is a show stopper, a bunch of folks here have to scare them off. I just wanted to know about some mechanical issues, some of you had to show off how "smart you are" evaluating 6K speakers to $156 dollar speakers.

Shame on you.

It's embarrassing.

Wayner

Yeah, I know, comparing a $154 a pair set of speakers to a $6000 a pair set is not exactly fair, but it sure does provide a good standard.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

As pointed out above, it was your boss who said that.  Perhaps Frank is embarrassed once again by your actions on this forum. 

[Flyquail56]

Knowing Frank will never steer you wrong, I picked up a pair last Sunday at BB.  And I must say that I concur with the comments here.  Great sound right out of the box, and they do very well with low powered tube amps (EL84). Wonder if they’ll get any better after they’ve been run in for a while!

Many thanks to Frank and Wayner for getting the word out on these.

And here’s a half serious question for Mr. Jones, since he worked at KEF.  These little guys come surprisingly close to my LS3/5as. Is that a coincidence?

Best,

Mike

[wushuliu]

Andrew is a classy guy. I read his speaker design forum in the Absolute Sound and it was very interesting. From his point of view, i would never cross his line. let him develop his systems. To have Dennis Murphy work on "correcting" his speaker cross-over systems is, well good for Dennis. I find it amusing.

Wayner

Dennis is not correcting, just experimenting to see if more performance could be squeezed out beyond the cost limitations Andrew Jones faced. Mr. Jones also replied to Murphy's post in that thread in general agreement:

Yes, as Dennis has found out, the speakers can no doubt be improved by throwing more money at them, Ces La Vie
The trick was doing as much as I could at the price I was given. The extra components would not of course cost me that much, but there still had to be a cutoff in what I could spend, but it doesn't stop the purchaser from having a go themselves and seeing what can be done, though of course you will invalidate the warranty...
The point is that the speaker has been engineered to be great value and so has the potential to be tweaked if you choose to do so.

Have fun!

Andrew