[MLS]

Looks like some good stuff. Can you list the gear you are using with the Pioneers?

Sure, 

Stock Squeeze Box Touch-Blue Jeans Coax-Jolida FX tube DAC w/ Telefunken 12au7's-MIT S3 interconnects-Musical Fidelity A 308 w/ Mundorf Caps-MIT S3 Speaker interface-Stock Pioneer SP-BS22-LR's

Sounds pretty good to my ears.  I know it can be better,  but I bet it would take many times the $77 I paid for the Pioneers.

My main speakers are highly modified Polk Audio SDA 2B TL's which are a whole nother animal. I would like to try them in this room but I will need someone to help me carry them up 2 flights of stairs.

Scott

[raysracing]

I moved some equipment around.  Put this system together and the Pioneers sound pretty good. They image very well and have an eerily deep soundstage.

I just spent some quality time with this set up.  I pulled out a tape measure and aligned the speakers, swapped out some amprex tubes for some tele-fu-kens and WOW!  Talk about hitting way above their price point.  These little (stock) Pioneers sound great with some modest gear behind them.  I think I hit a synergy home run.

Maybe I should mod them

I do so miss that which you said about the imaging and soundstage (depth).  I just moved my Tekton Lore's to a long wall which made them very happy and me too, but they still don't image like these Pioneers did. If I could just meld the two speakers best qualities right?

[alphaiii]

So Amazon has the FS52 on sale for $60 each. 

Too bad it wasn't easier for Dennis to implement the new tweeter... since these are a steal right now.  Then again, probably even a steal with the stock tweeter.

[zieglj01]

So Amazon has the FS52 on sale for $60 each.

It is gone now
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-FS52-LR-Designed-standing-Loudspeaker/dp/B008NCD2S4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386190248&sr=8-1&keywords=pioneer+fs52

[alphaiii]

Yeah that deal didn't last long.

Still, got a pair for my Dad - he's been waiting for a sale on them, and I don't think I've ever seen them less than $80 each, so at $60 each I had to get them for him.

[hermanchrist]

I suspect that those that are trying to remove the speakers from the cabinets are using US version allen wrenches, which would be wrong. The drivers are 2.5mm allen size. My 2.5 fits perfectly and all of the screws came lose with no problem.

If you think you have stripped out the wood screw threads, buy some extra 2.5mm allen wrenches, and apply some 5 minute epoxy to the end that you insert into the allen headed wood screw, let it dry and then pull out as you turn the screw counter-clockwise.

Or better yet, use some super glue on the allen wrench and when you have the screw out, put the glued allen wrench/screw above a flame and it will "un-bond" the super glue, so you can use the screw (and wrench) again.

Wayner

One more advice, choose good quality wrenches, I had the same problem using the US version allen wrenches, the first two screw went fine but the next one the wrench came loose as if the screw were damaged, after reading the post I got the right size (2,5 mm) and was the same, to screws and got loose again. I used a magnifier to see the end of the wrench and screw head and find that the screw was ok but the wrench tip was teared, there was no sharp edges, them I got another one but this time not a cheap Chinese set, I got one that was chrome vanadium made and this time worked fine for all the screws. It seams Chinese allen screws don't take Chinese wrenches 

[drtool]

I just checked my screws for size and all my Allen sets did not play well with the installed screws. For any one reading this I bought some "screw-grip " from the Bowman Co. I believe in 1991. One drop of it in the head of the Allen or any screw for that matter, will have the screw out, no problem. If I can find a link I will post it up.

[jman66]

With the Vifa BC25TG15-04 out of stock, can the shielded version be used: http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-bc25sg15-04-1-shielded-dome-tweeter--264-1026 ?

[raysracing]

Someone just asked about buying my Lore's which got me thinking about my Pioneers again. These woukd become my speakers for awhile. Would just coating the interior of the cabinet (and frame of woofer and maybe tweeter) in plasticlay help significantly?

[hermanchrist]

Someone just asked about buying my Lore's which got me thinking about my Pioneers again. These woukd become my speakers for awhile. Would just coating the interior of the cabinet (and frame of woofer and maybe tweeter) in plasticlay help significantly?

Yes it does, I did it for the towers and got very good results, but I used a bitumen sheet instead, plasticlay would be a looot of work in the towers. Cut the sheets in small patches so they pass trough drivers hole, use a micro torch to melt (just a Little) one side and then cover the interior sheet by sheet, of course there will be some spots you cannot reach but most of the cabinet will be covered.

[charmerci]

Someone just asked about buying my Lore's which got me thinking about my Pioneers again. These woukd become my speakers for awhile. Would just coating the interior of the cabinet (and frame of woofer and maybe tweeter) in plasticlay help significantly?

I did. If you listen to loud music, I think it makes a big difference. (Low levels not much, if at all.) You'll need about 7 pounds for both - if you coat them with about a half inch coat all around.


Frank Van Alstine says this will change the inner dynamics/design of the speakers. I personally prefer it. Gets rid of lower mid-range resonance and the highs are clearer and the bass is more punchy, imo.


Put a bit of wax on the screws when reinserting them - it's difficult. (Other suggestions are somewhere in this thread. I think my initial post about doing this is, is on about page 10 of this thread.)

[raysracing]

Thanks. I may even go with the bitumen route even for the bookshelves because I am a bit lazy. Or maybe a mix of both where I can get them in.  I doubt I'll let the Lore's go, but you never know.  I now wish I bought a better amp and waited to buy speakers for the amp that I loved.

[zieglj01]

For those who may be interested - the modded Pioneer speakers are now online.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/AALS.html

[dlparker]

Thanks. I may even go with the bitumen route..

Okay you guys - you're at it again. Sending me deep down into the black hole of "what the heck is that - internet - hyperlinks - I'm fa-a-a-a-a-lling again.."

Bitumen. My first thought was "That's COAL!" I remember that from HS science. I thought I'd better stop after this website:
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Commercial/Products/Modified_Bitumen_Roofing/Self_Adhered

I figured - 'well, I'll throw it out there and see what that stirs up'

[dlparker]

For those who may be interested - the modded Pioneer speakers are now online.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/AALS.html

Okay, there's my center and r/l mains. Move the self-modded ones to surround.

[charmerci]

For those who may be interested - the modded Pioneer speakers are now online.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/AALS.html

Uh oh. Looks like Dennis is going to get very busy doing these for a good chunk of his time.

[alphaiii]

Am I crazy, or did Dennis comment that the modded C22 would not make a great main speaker due to the cabinet tuning?  I thought he did, but can't find that comment.

[srb]

Am I crazy, or did Dennis comment that the modded C22 would not make a great main speaker due to the cabinet tuning?  I thought he did, but can't find that comment.

   ↓
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I hope to finish up mod for the center channel over the next couple of days.   ( I was a little disappointed to discover that the center channel is tuned significantly higher than the 22's, due to the cabinet volume being less than twice that of the single-woofer 22.   So I think that will have to be used strictly as a center rather than a bargain MTM main.)

[alphaiii]

Nice, thanks.

Guess I just skipped right over it.

It will be interesting to see what Dennis can do with the towers, and if he ends up offering a modded version of those as well.

[hermanchrist]

Thanks. I may even go with the bitumen route even for the bookshelves because I am a bit lazy. Or maybe a mix of both where I can get them in.  I doubt I'll let the Lore's go, but you never know.  I now wish I bought a better amp and waited to buy speakers for the amp that I loved.

For those thinking in using bitumen sheets, I am not an expert but I have some advices. I read about using bitumen in several places and although never made any measurements in my pioneers, my impression is it got better than before, how much? Before, in moderate to high levels, the speakers sounded "crowded" as when you are in a room with many people speaking at the same time. It was difficult to identify all the elements in the music, now it sounds "quiet" its not perfect yet, but the sound is more clear an I think stereo image its better too.

About bitumen, Its a 3mm thick sheet covered with polyethylene plastic film in both sides, you can use a basic one, there is no need to use a very expensive type. I made some tests beforehand and found the ease way was to remove the plastic film on one side (the side which will make contact to speaker wall) them heat this side until the sheet became soft but hard enough to handle with one hand, this will make the sheet adhere evenly on the cabinet wall, the heat will soften the sheet and make it more adhesive. You can use a mini torch (http://www.ebay.com/bhp/mini-butane-torch) to soft the sheet. To remove the plastic film in one side the better way is to use the torch from a distance on the sheet to heat the plastic ( be careful to not melt) and then remove by puling it from one edge, it will come of easily, the other way its just melt the plastic with the torch but I found difficult to control how much time to apply the flame, some times was too little and other times I made a hole all the way trough the sheet.

Of course the self adhesive type would not require the heating process, unless you find difficult to fold the sheet and make it adhere evenly on cabinet wall, in my cabinet there was some glue fillets on the walls.

Bitumen sheet have the advantage of being ease to control the thickness of the layers (in 3mm increment) and fine tune to one personal taste, in the other hand it is a very dirty business, I had this sticky black thing in all my fingers and had a table cloth destroyed in the process. Plastclay is much ease to use.

Pioneers cabinet is very tight and the drivers hole does not allow to put both hands inside and have sharp edges (remember to put some plstic tape on it) which make handling an adhesive sheet of bitumen very tricky, be prepared to spend a whole day on this job (for the towers).