Spikes or no spikes ?

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Guy 13

Spikes or no spikes ?
« on: 19 Dec 2012, 10:37 am »

Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.
I know this subject was mentioned/discussed sometime ago,
but I would like to know if my reasoning makes sense.
The spikes at the bottom of a loudspeaker are to avoid vibrations to be transmitted to the floor and/or to the speakers from other sources of vibration.
Right ?
Then, why this set up (Below) would not work or would not efficiently diminish the vibrations from the bottom subwoofer to the upper coaxial driver.
If it works for the floor, why would it not work for the coaxial on top ?
Or, of it won’t work or won’t do much to diminish the transmission of vibrations, can it have negative effects on the sound of the coaxial driver ?
Guy 13
 



stevenkelby

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #1 on: 19 Dec 2012, 12:24 pm »
Guy, spikes are used to couple, not decouple/isolate.

I think that making the top driver baffle solid with the bottom subs would of course couple more effectively than spikes.

I do wonder though, in situations where speakers are spiked to the floor, would it be better to bolt them down to the floor? I don't know. I've never heard of anyone trying or talking about that.

Trying to bolt the speakers to the concrete or joists beneath them would be not that hard in comparison to building an entire dedicated room, or some of the other extreme measures we take for better sound :)

Steve.

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #2 on: 19 Dec 2012, 12:51 pm »
Guy, spikes are used to couple, not decouple/isolate.

I think that making the top driver baffle solid with the bottom subs would of course couple more effectively than spikes.

I do wonder though, in situations where speakers are spiked to the floor, would it be better to bolt them down to the floor? I don't know. I've never heard of anyone trying or talking about that.

Trying to bolt the speakers to the concrete or joists beneath them would be not that hard in comparison to building an entire dedicated room, or some of the other extreme measures we take for better sound :)

Steve.

Hi Steve and all Audio Circle members.
If I understand you correctly,
the spikes are for coupling (Mating) the enclosure to the floor,
so the floor act as a vibration absorber,
the vibrations are damped by the floor,
if the floor is rigid enough, like a concrete floor,
that's what I have.
But if I even think of drilling holes in the floor of my wife's house,
she will throw me down the fourth floor,
the fourth floor is where my listening room is.
Well, so much for that idea.
Thanks.

Guy 13
 

Hank

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #3 on: 19 Dec 2012, 01:40 pm »
Guy, your are so funny with your wife fear!  :lol:
Thanks for brightening my day! :thumb:

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #4 on: 19 Dec 2012, 02:07 pm »
Guy, your are so funny with your wife fear!  :lol:
Thanks for brightening my day! :thumb:

Hi Hank and all Audio Circle members.
My Vietnamese wife love me so much,
if she throws me down the fourth floor,
she would put a mattress so I won't hurt myself.
Now that I think of it, the reason she would put a mattress to absorb my fall,
it's because she needs me to help her with her business.

Guy 13


rollo

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #5 on: 19 Dec 2012, 04:19 pm »
Hey Guy do you have carpet over the concrete floor ? If so consider Herbies products right here on AC.



charles

persisting1

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #6 on: 19 Dec 2012, 09:21 pm »
Guy 13,

We will definitely needs to see pictures of your new listening room  :thumb:

Edit: Sorry for using the wrong name.
« Last Edit: 20 Dec 2012, 03:01 am by persisting1 »

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #7 on: 20 Dec 2012, 08:26 am »
Hey Guy do you have carpet over the concrete floor ? If so consider Herbies products right here on AC.



charles
Hi Charles and all Audio Circle members.
Yes a have a thin carpet (See picture below) and an IKEA under carpet
on a ceramic floor and with 12" of armored concrete underneath.
I just had a look at Herbies website, nice products.
I might buy some of those products, of course, after robbing a bank.
Nice products, look well designed and made, but a little on the expensive side.
Thanks for the link.
Guy 13





Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #8 on: 20 Dec 2012, 08:28 am »
Guy 13,

We will definitely needs to see pictures of your new listening room  :thumb:

Edit: Sorry for using the wrong name.
Hi persisting1 and all Audio Circle members.
Pictures already posted.
No problem for using the wrong name, I have been called worst name than that.

Guy 13

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #9 on: 20 Dec 2012, 08:37 am »
Hi all Audio Circle members.
My wife warned me not to post any pictures of my " pig style " listening room before I do a good clean up.
I don't think it's that bad, but I will not take any chances and I will clean up, then take some pictures, so you can see my set up.
Please be patient, pictures on the making,
then they will go thrue censoreship (By my wife) then, if approved,
they will be posted.
Guy 13

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #10 on: 20 Dec 2012, 09:37 am »
Hi all Audio Circle members.
Yes, I got the go ahead from my wife, after a little clean up.
Here it is and please no comments on the wheels,
at 64 years old, I cannot lift all by myself the 150 pounds each V1.
Once I have found all the ideal parameters,
I will either install spikes or something else.
By the way, why Danny stayed quiet and did not comment on this subject?
It's not the first time he does that, he let other people comment... For him.
I have GR Research speakers bought from him, therefore, I wouild like to have his opinion on his speakers, even if they are modified.
Guy 13



stevenkelby

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #11 on: 20 Dec 2012, 09:52 am »
Nice room Guy.

I was searching for people with speakers bolted to the floor and found that northwardacoustics build systems with the speakers held between floor and ceiling and super highly tensioned cables:

http://www.dhorg.net/~astudio/gallery.htm

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #12 on: 20 Dec 2012, 10:25 am »
Nice room Guy.

I was searching for people with speakers bolted to the floor and found that northwardacoustics build systems with the speakers held between floor and ceiling and super highly tensioned cables:

http://www.dhorg.net/~astudio/gallery.htm
Hi Steven (stevenkelby) and all Audio Circle members.
My floor is armored concrete,
no way I can touch that floor with anything
or my wife will kill me, it's her house and it's brand new.
So we have to go to plan B, if there is such a thing as plan B ?
Maybe that's plan B:
What I could do is slip under the speakers a thick slab (5cm) of marble (It's inexpensive here in Vietnam) with or without some Bernies disc or equivalent.
Attach with heavy duty bolts the speaker base to the marble slab.
All that is not free and I am on a very strict budget these days.
Well, I will keep looking.
Thanks for the link.

Guy 13
 

bdp24

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #13 on: 20 Dec 2012, 11:35 am »
When I made stands to stack my Quads (six inch wide panels, cut from three sheets of 3/4" MDF glued together, on each side of each pair), I made them almost eight feet tall so that I could spike not only the bottoms of the stands to the floor, but also the tops to the ceiling. But now I'm in a house with ten foot ceilings!

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #14 on: 20 Dec 2012, 11:44 am »
When I made stands to stack my Quads (six inch wide panels, cut from three sheets of 3/4" MDF glued together, on each side of each pair), I made them almost eight feet tall so that I could spike not only the bottoms of the stands to the floor, but also the tops to the ceiling. But now I'm in a house with ten foot ceilings!
Hi bdp24 and all Audio Circle members.
6 inches wide panels by 8 feet tall.
Excuse me, but I really ca't figure out what you mean.
Would you have a picture of your set up?
Either that or you try to explain your set up with different words
in a different way.
I understand quite fast, when you explain for a long time. (LOL)

Guy 13


bdp24

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #15 on: 20 Dec 2012, 12:22 pm »
Hi Guy. Well, you know what the old Quads ("57's") look like, right? Electrostatic panels 29" tall by about 34" wide, and varying in depth from a couple of inches at the top to about eight inches at the bottom. To stack them, people usually have the bottom pair near the floor and the top pair centered at ear level (that's how Mark Levinson made the stands for his HQD, acronym for Hartley-subs/Quad-mids/Decca-ribbon tweeters). I, instead, mounted the bottom pair at ear level and the top pair at standing ear level (I don't like looking down at the image, and often get up to dance or, uh, play air guitar). The stands are mounted on the sides of the Quads, one 3-layer MDF panel (2.25") six inches deep/wide on each side of each speaker until reaching about five inches above the floor, where the MDF makes a right angle front and back to form the two foot deep (or wide, if you're looking from the side) feet/legs. The panels (four, one on each side of left and right pairs) are all separate, with a 3/4" thick/six inch deep MDF brace below, between, and above the two speakers on each side, dado'd into the side panels, bolts passing through small holes in the side panels and into the braces, and the side of each Quad bolted onto each side panel. Once they are assembled, they CANNOT be moved, spikes or no spikes!

Guy 13

Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #16 on: 20 Dec 2012, 12:32 pm »
Hi Guy. Well, you know what the old Quads ("57's") look like, right? Electrostatic panels 29" tall by about 34" wide, and varying in depth from a couple of inches at the top to about eight inches at the bottom. To stack them, people usually have the bottom pair near the floor and the top pair centered at ear level (that's how Mark Levinson made the stands for his HQD, acronym for Hartley-subs/Quad-mids/Decca-ribbon tweeters). I, instead, mounted the bottom pair at ear level and the top pair at standing ear level (I don't like looking down at the image, and often get up to dance or, uh, play air guitar). The stands are mounted on the sides of the Quads, one 3-layer MDF panel (2.25") six inches deep/wide on each side of each speaker until reaching about five inches above the floor, where the MDF makes a right angle front and back to form the two foot deep (or wide, if you're looking from the side) feet/legs. The panels (four, one on each side of left and right pairs) are all separate, with a 3/4" thick/six inch deep MDF brace below, between, and above the two speakers on each side, dado'd into the side panels, bolts passing through small holes in the side panels and into the braces, and the side of each Quad bolted onto each side panel. Once they are assembled, they CANNOT be moved, spikes or no spikes!
Hi bdp24 and all Audio Circle members.
Thanks, I got a better idea of what you are talking about,
however, like they say:
I picture is worth a thousand words.

Guy 13

bdp24

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #17 on: 20 Dec 2012, 01:01 pm »
Yup Guy, I'll see if I can post 'em. I haven't posted pics here yet---I'm too old to care much about computer stuff. Time is running out, and there's too much Bach I want to hear before it does. YOU know what I'm talkin' bout!

Danny Richie

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #18 on: 20 Dec 2012, 10:01 pm »
Quote
By the way, why Danny stayed quiet and did not comment on this subject?

I needed some time to get to it.

Speakers should be coupled to the floor with some type of spikes to isolate the weight of the speakers to those small points. This keeps the speakers still and anchored so that they do not move. Any moving or swaying of the speakers will be out of phase with the output and have negative effects. This can be most noted in the imaging and in tightness of the bass response.

If stacking speakers or an upper piece like that, the main thing you would want to avoid is allowing the resonance of one panel to be passed from one to another. So attack the problem by solving the problem. Fix the resonance of the panel that the upper speaker sits on, and avoid letting the upper speaker rest on the panel itself. Let it rest on the outer edges where there is no resonance.


Danny Richie

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Re: Spikes or no spikes ?
« Reply #19 on: 20 Dec 2012, 10:07 pm »
Hey Guy do you have carpet over the concrete floor ? If so consider Herbies products right here on AC.

charles

I get a kick out of him calling his floor spikes "decoupling spikes". They don't decouple, they couple.