Goldfinger Statement in the house!

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 8974 times.

TONEPUB

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #20 on: 1 Dec 2012, 06:19 pm »
     Well we know this cart. is not for the average Joe.  For the money one would expect everything a cart is capable of. Is it ? I'll never know unless I read the review.
       It would be interesting to know how the Goldfinger compares directly to say a Lyra Titan or Strain Gauge from Soundsmith. . Using two exactly the same arms and TT. Is it the best to be had out there ? When is a review forthcoming ?


charles

And that is what we do.   That's why I have a pair of AVID Acutus Ref tables and a pair of SME V arms.  It's the only way to really get a handle on things.  Which is exactly what we did with the Atlas/Titan/Kleos review.  When they were set up side by side, everything identical, the diff was easy to hear.  A table with two arms is great, but you can't go back and forth in real time.  It's easy for your memory to play tricks on you!

jimdgoulding

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #21 on: 1 Dec 2012, 07:08 pm »
 A table with two arms DOES sound like a good tool for a reviewer.

TONEPUB

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #22 on: 1 Dec 2012, 08:36 pm »
Not really because you can't compare in real time.  I tried that and found that two identical tables with identical arms, cartridges and tonearm cables is much more useful, because then you can change one variable and listen side by side in real time.  I've got a handful of albums from MoFi, Music Matters, etc that I have two copies of that are only one or two pressing numbers apart so I can spin the same record both places at the same time.  Much more useful than a table with two arms.

Both the ARC REF Phono2SE and Pass XP-25 have dual inputs that can be configured identically.

The table with two arms is a lot more fun on an audiophile level, because then you can have two cartridges with completely different tonal characters, or a Stereo and Mono setup.



jimdgoulding

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #23 on: 1 Dec 2012, 09:32 pm »
Not really because you can't compare in real time.  I tried that and found that two identical tables with identical arms, cartridges and tonearm cables is much more useful, because then you can change one variable and listen side by side in real time.  I've got a handful of albums from MoFi, Music Matters, etc that I have two copies of that are only one or two pressing numbers apart so I can spin the same record both places at the same time.  Much more useful than a table with two arms.

Both the ARC REF Phono2SE and Pass XP-25 have dual inputs that can be configured identically.

The table with two arms is a lot more fun on an audiophile level, because then you can have two cartridges with completely different tonal characters, or a Stereo and Mono setup.
I'm sure you know best.  I visited with a fellow the other day and heard a system than had more harmonic info than it did fundamental.  The higher frequency resolution was so fast and fine it was almost like you could see or hear thru instruments themselves as tho it was reproducing the edges or attack of instruments to a greater degree than the body.  I was at a loss for words.  Sometimes that's probably best. 

Ericus Rex

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #24 on: 1 Dec 2012, 09:42 pm »
Not really because you can't compare in real time.

Why not?  Just drop both arms onto the single record.  I'd say that takes more variables out of the equation when comparing two cartridges.

TONEPUB

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #25 on: 1 Dec 2012, 09:52 pm »
That's a really quick way to destroy a record.   

neobop

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3448
  • BIRD LIVES
Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #26 on: 2 Dec 2012, 01:39 pm »
And that is what we do.   That's why I have a pair of AVID Acutus Ref tables and a pair of SME V arms.  It's the only way to really get a handle on things.  Which is exactly what we did with the Atlas/Titan/Kleos review.  When they were set up side by side, everything identical, the diff was easy to hear.  A table with two arms is great, but you can't go back and forth in real time.  It's easy for your memory to play tricks on you!

The credibility of a review depends on a large degree, on the experience and expertise of the reviewer.  This is especially true with completely subjective reviewing.  Having a single "reference" set-up (as above), may be useful to hear differences between similar Lyra cartridges, but in an ultimate sense, is revealing differences with that particular set-up.  When you jump to comparing carts with very dissimilar physical characteristics,  such a comparison will usually favor one over the other.  I don't know if that's the case here, but that's the point.   To assume differences are universal, is a mistake.  It is entirely possible that a different set-up, one of equal or greater quality, could yield very different results.

In the past I criticized a couple of Mikey Fremer's reviews because I knew he missed the mark due to inappropriate set-ups.  This was with a couple of reviews around 25 yrs ago.  I don't think that is the case today.  The reason I mentioned the SPU in a previous post, was because of cart weight and VTF, not a qualitative comparison.   Like a Denon 103 with a beefed up body, I suspect there may be very spicific arm mass considerations?  Goldfinger seems most unusual weighing in at 17g and having a cu of 15.  Most heavyweight carts have a lower cu. 

I don't think the review is out yet, so this isn't a direct criticism.  Like the $60K Caliburn table that Steve Hoffman loves and Tone doesn't, YMMV.
neo

TheChairGuy

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #27 on: 2 Dec 2012, 04:31 pm »
I find it awfully difficult to 'describe' sound 8)

Sound is sound; descriptions are written/visual.  The twain rarely meet.

While reviews are fine guides to help nudge you in a direction, nothing beats one's perception formed by oneself listening.

John

TONEPUB

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #28 on: 2 Dec 2012, 05:32 pm »
The credibility of a review depends on a large degree, on the experience and expertise of the reviewer.  This is especially true with completely subjective reviewing.  Having a single "reference" set-up (as above), may be useful to hear differences between similar Lyra cartridges, but in an ultimate sense, is revealing differences with that particular set-up.  When you jump to comparing carts with very dissimilar physical characteristics,  such a comparison will usually favor one over the other.  I don't know if that's the case here, but that's the point.   To assume differences are universal, is a mistake.  It is entirely possible that a different set-up, one of equal or greater quality, could yield very different results.

In the past I criticized a couple of Mikey Fremer's reviews because I knew he missed the mark due to inappropriate set-ups.  This was with a couple of reviews around 25 yrs ago.  I don't think that is the case today.  The reason I mentioned the SPU in a previous post, was because of cart weight and VTF, not a qualitative comparison.   Like a Denon 103 with a beefed up body, I suspect there may be very spicific arm mass considerations?  Goldfinger seems most unusual weighing in at 17g and having a cu of 15.  Most heavyweight carts have a lower cu. 

I don't think the review is out yet, so this isn't a direct criticism.  Like the $60K Caliburn table that Steve Hoffman loves and Tone doesn't, YMMV.
neo

Well, in a case like the Atlas, I had the guys from Lyra come out to check my setup, to be sure we had everything optimized before writing a comparison review.  On many very expensive products, such as the Sonus faber Aida, the price includes setup, so again, we have the mfr. over to be sure I've got the product set up optimally.  I completely agree with Neo that often adverse results are often setup related.  Most mfrs. have been more than willing to drop by, because they know we did set the product up correctly before proceeding on the review.  And over the 8 years of publication, by working with all these guys, I've learned a LOT about set up that I may never had on my own.  I know a few online entities pride themselves on "not having the manufacturer involved" but again, I see a review as a way to help my readers, so by all means I want to be sure we're doing it right.

The Lyra people felt that comparing the Atlas, Titan i and Skala on SMEV arms was a valid comparison, yet when we were done with this part of the comparison, Joe Harley actually preferred the sound of the Atlas on the TriPlanar, which is where it has stayed as my reference.

As for the Caliburn, Steve Hoffman was given that table as a loaner for almost three years, and played very few records on it while he had it.  Before he had the Caliburn "to check his test pressings," he had a Music Hall MMF 9.1 which I gave him, as he was using a mid 70's Dual with a Shure M75 to listen to records. 

It wasn't that I didn't LOVE the Caliburn, it was just when we did a side by side comparison of the Caliburn and an SME 20, both with identical Dynavector XV-1s cartridges (and the Continuum guy spent 8 hours at my place tweaking the turntable to what he felt was perfection) The Caliburn just didn't reveal much more music.  It did have fantastic bass definition, which we did mention in the review. The big Continuum is another story, but even then, I'd love to hear the big Continuum alongside a number of great tables in the 20-40k range to make a final decision.  For me, that's where I currently see the diminishing returns point, after about $30k.  I'm sure plenty of people here will disagree with this.

So, as much respect as I have for Steve Hoffman as a mastering engineer, he's not really a turntable set up guy and has not had a lot of seat time with various high end turntables, I have.   

And, as I've repeated so many times before, the best review is meant to pique your interest and hopefully get you to put something on your short list to examine for yourself and draw the final conclusion.  I know this is especially tough with cartridges.  Conrad Mas at AVID has joked many times that I have more AVID product in my listening room than any of his dealers do.

That's why I keep a dozen turntables, about 15 tonearms and a plethora of cartridges and phono stages around.  It often takes more than one standard setup to get great sound, and my goal is to help our readers make some sense of it.

jtwrace

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11415
  • www.theintellectualpeoplepodcast.com
    • TIPP YouTube Channel
Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #29 on: 2 Dec 2012, 05:37 pm »
my goal is to help our readers make some sense of it.
Which IMO you accomplish.   :thumb:

jjc1

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #30 on: 2 Dec 2012, 06:44 pm »
  Just yesterday heard the Goldfinger  Statement  on an AMG Viella TT with Aesthtix amplification and Vandersteen 7 speakers, demonstrated by Gath Leerer of  Musical Surroundings. System probably coming  in around 125m.   The sound was spectacular, not just a step up from my humble 30m system. Never heard such a deep soundstage and pinpoint placement of  instruments and singers, not to mention the closest to live sound I have yet heard from a stereo system. But then I don't know what it would have all sounded like with a less expensive cartridge.

TONEPUB

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #31 on: 2 Dec 2012, 07:22 pm »
I've used the AMG with a few cartridges now, the final review will be in our next issue.  I'd say that Goldfinger contributed about 20-30% of the subtlety that you heard.  They work well together and I'm trying to sell a few vintage pieces so I can keep the Goldfinger on my AMG.

I am glad to hear that you felt that you heard a signifiant amount of musical retrieval there!  Garth is a great setup guy.

poseidonsvoice

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4020
  • Science is not a democracy - Earl Geddes
    • 2 channel/7 channel setup
Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #32 on: 2 Dec 2012, 07:39 pm »

And, as I've repeated so many times before, the best review is meant to pique your interest and hopefully get you to put something on your short list to examine for yourself and draw the final conclusion.  I know this is especially tough with cartridges.  Conrad Mas at AVID has joked many times that I have more AVID product in my listening room than any of his dealers do.

That's why I keep a dozen turntables, about 15 tonearms and a plethora of cartridges and phono stages around.  It often takes more than one standard setup to get great sound, and my goal is to help our readers make some sense of it.

That's why I love reading your mag. In fact, my only criticism is I want more reviews of analog related stuff, now that I am knee deep in it! Thanks for your help in my setup as always.

Anand.

jtwrace

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11415
  • www.theintellectualpeoplepodcast.com
    • TIPP YouTube Channel
Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #33 on: 2 Dec 2012, 07:41 pm »
That's why I love reading your mag. In fact, my only criticism is I want more reviews of analog related stuff, now that I am knee deep in it! Thanks for your help in my setup as always.

Anand.

https://www.facebook.com/Analogaholic?fref=ts

TONEPUB

Re: Goldfinger Statement in the house!
« Reply #34 on: 2 Dec 2012, 07:53 pm »
That's why I love reading your mag. In fact, my only criticism is I want more reviews of analog related stuff, now that I am knee deep in it! Thanks for your help in my setup as always.

Anand.

Amand, start hanging out on our Analogaholic site.   www.tonepublications.com/analogaholic   We've just started populating it, but it is 100% devoted to analog.  There will be a lot more articles, on setup, optimization and of course tonearms, tables, cartridges, phono stages, everything analog related.

Thanks for following.


Ha!  Looks like JWTrace and I posted at the same time.

But we are uploading a ton of stuff between now and CES.