[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) Active crossovers (instead of passive ones) offer superior and more numerous options to passive crossovers; though they still require the same types of skills to setup that passives do to design.

 They also offer greater flexibility: allowing one to correct for a room or even just listening preferences and then change back at will.

(2) even if I'm not fond of needing 4 amps to run a speaker.

Yes, you guys've mentioned all the merits of active X'over.

But ever any posters here mentioned about the technical side of it - choice of the correct X-over corner frequency, order slope, & to ensure smooth flat transitions at the corner frequencies.

Even as you said above, we can stick to the same corner frequencies of the original passive X'over designs, how can we assure the most needed smooth & flat transitions at the corner frequencies.

This is, IMO, the most tedious part of any active X'over network let alone the substantial added cost, hazzles & space of adding more power amps to drive individual loudspeaker drivers.

We may need a realtime audio spectrum analyser with calibrated mics, pink-noise generator, etc etc to get it right.

Otherwise, I can tell the end sonic performance may be even worse if not better than factory tested passive X'over networks.

I've seen a few rich & time-is-no-issue audiophile friends who ended up going back to passive after spending tons of money & years of trial & error on active networking.

If not handled properly, it is like opening up a huge can of worms.

MY advice m - don't touch it unless you are sure you got the resources of doing it.
I did not & I would not as I am very happy with passive bi-wiring of my 2-way loudspeaker system.

c-J

[JerryLove]

It's certainly not *more* difficult to configure.

Indeed: given the specifics of a passive crossover, a trained monkey could imitate it in DCX setup.

The *design* is still work (though prototyping is trivial in a DCX), but no more for the sake of being active.

I think it's a particularly interesting way to go (and some have) with active speakers. Putting the crossover first and then multi-amping internally.

[JohnR]

We may need a realtime audio spectrum analyser with calibrated mics, pink-noise generator, etc etc to get it right.

Otherwise, I can tell the end sonic performance may be even worse if not better than factory tested passive X'over networks.

I don't think it's "may need", I think it's mandatory. Although these days, the swept-sine technique is usually used.

However, it's not very expensive nor difficult, and there are lots of tutorials and support/discussion on online forums on how to do it.

[planet10]

... The Behringer is an amazingly flexible crossover

This is true, and i've found this capability very useful. Both units i have had are not very good sounding, the analog section really needs to be replaced to make these sutable for hifi use.

dave

[Tyson]

Active crossovers are the evolutionary biology of Audio.  In other words, you gotta deal in hard facts, measurements, and your own ruthless judgement.  No more accepting the voodoo and black magic of "audiophile" manufacturers. 

[jtwrace]

Active crossovers are the evolutionary biology of Audio.  In other words, you gotta deal in hard facts, measurements, and your own ruthless judgement.  No more accepting the voodoo and black magic of "audiophile" manufacturers.

Tell us what you really think.   

[exa065]

Active crossovers are the evolutionary biology of Audio.  In other words, you gotta deal in hard facts, measurements, and your own ruthless judgement.  No more accepting the voodoo and black magic of "audiophile" manufacturers.

This sums it up.
It took me two years to build my active speakers from scratch. This was purely a hobby project. It is impossible to get it right without systematic measurements. At one point I had to continue with the measurements outside the house to get realistic low-frequency results. The neighbours invented the term "the sound of torture".  The benefits of properly built active speakers are very exciting:

•   Dynamic sound.
•   Very low intermediation distortion - the power amps work in their limited frequency ranges.
•   The power requirements for the treble amplifier are very modest, it can work in class A. A couple of Watts can be enough, I used more than that.
•   The mid range amp can be 50 or 100W.
•   To get the equal loudness from the base at 20 - 30 Hz you need let say 400W.
•   In the rare event when clipping occurs usually it is in the base channel, and it doesn't sound too bad because the upper channels are working at normal load. The result is lower THD.

The spouse acceptance factor and cost are real issues.

[Davey]

I sometimes get the impression that folks are just waking up to active crossover systems.  You know, they've been around for many decades. 
I first saw a system configured this way back in the late 1960's.  I was actually a young fella then, and didn't appreciate what I was seeing. 

And nowadays it seems (from some folks) there's some kind of weird impression that active crossovers are magic and can alleviate all of the necessary design work from speaker system design.

What a strange world we live in. 

Cheers,

Dave.

[exa065]

The spell-checker played a trick on me - "intermediation" is "intermodulation". 

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) I sometimes get the impression that folks are just waking up to active crossover systems.  You know, they've been around for many decades. 

(2) And nowadays it seems (from some folks) there's some kind of weird impression that active crossovers are magic and can alleviate all of the necessary design work from speaker system design.

What a strange world we live in. 

A wake-up call or what on active X'over fans???

(1) Genelec is the loudspeaker manufacturer from Finland which really builds & supplies active loudspeakers the bigtime way starting from passive since 1978 to first multi-way active on 1991. In 20 years time (by 2010) it already supplies the worldwide markets 50 active (with-in X-overs+power amps) models.

(2) I got the chance to have a full audition in an audiophile friend's home Genelec flagship model: 1038B
     "professional studio active monitor". a 120lb 3-way heavy-duty stuff. 15" woofer (400W), 5" mid (120W)
     & 1" tweeter (120W). 120dB sensitivity! Guess how much will cost you brandnew!

     Driven by an Audio Research tube phono-preamp with CD music, it sounded pretty decent at low level.
     At high SPLs, it would a bit too overwhelming all over me.

     Many audio fans like such very forward & upfront sound (charaterstic for active loudspeakers). BUT, but I tend to be somewhat 'special'. I like more layback soundstaging as if I were sitting at the 13rd row centre
from the stage.

     So personally I find this studio monitor sounds too 'agressive' & lacking breathing airs. It maybe
     a sweetheart for those who like bring pop/rock concerts home.

     Having experienced one of the world's best active loudspeakers, I have all the excuse for still loving my passive bi-wired loudspeakers. More air & human & organic.

    c-J

     

[Davey]

There isn't anything inherent in the design of an 'active' loudspeaker that should cause a "forward & upfront sound."  If listening to one example of an active system and not being impressed by it gives you the excuse to essentially reject the scheme, then so be it. 

"Air & human & organic" are subjective labels that are conversely not inherent in the design of a conventional 'passive' loudspeaker system. 

Cheers,

Dave.

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

There isn't anything inherent in the design of an 'active' loudspeaker that should cause a "forward & upfront sound."  If listening to one example of an active system and not being impressed by it gives you the excuse to essentially reject the scheme, then so be it. 
"Air & human & organic" are subjective labels that are conversely not inherent in the design of a conventional 'passive' loudspeaker system. 

A loudspeaker is "inherent"ly designed for listening "music" by "human" beings - you & me.

Any objection?

c-J

[PRELUDE]

Hi.
A wake-up call or what on active X'over fans???

(1) Genelec is the loudspeaker manufacturer from Finland which really builds & supplies active loudspeakers the bigtime way starting from passive since 1978 to first multi-way active on 1991. In 20 years time (by 2010) it already supplies the worldwide markets 50 active (with-in X-overs+power amps) models.

(2) I got the chance to have a full audition in an audiophile friend's home Genelec flagship model: 1038B
     "professional studio active monitor". a 120lb 3-way heavy-duty stuff. 15" woofer (400W), 5" mid (120W)
     & 1" tweeter (120W). 120dB sensitivity! Guess how much will cost you brandnew!

     Driven by an Audio Research tube phono-preamp with CD music, it sounded pretty decent at low level.
     At high SPLs, it would a bit too overwhelming all over me.

     Many audio fans like such very forward & upfront sound (charaterstic for active loudspeakers). BUT, but I tend to be somewhat 'special'. I like more layback soundstaging as if I were sitting at the 13rd row centre
from the stage.

     So personally I find this studio monitor sounds too 'agressive' & lacking breathing airs. It maybe
     a sweetheart for those who like bring pop/rock concerts home.

     Having experienced one of the world's best active loudspeakers, I have all the excuse for still loving my passive bi-wired loudspeakers. More air & human & organic.

    c-J

   

I am going to countdown that how many times you brought up this speaker(GENELEC) in active speakers conversation in different threads.
We all understand that you have heard a pair speakers that you did not like(active or passive)which is true and I do not think there is a single problem with that.But it won't going to make any speakers good or bad(active or passive).
Do you have any picture or description of your system to share it with us.
Thanks.

[Davey]

Hi.
A loudspeaker is "inherent"ly designed for listening "music" by "human" beings - you & me.

c-J

Which has exactly 'what' to do with the topic of this thread?

Your answer to the thread question appears to be "no," and with zero intention of going that direction.  What is the point of your posts?

Dave.

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) I am going to countdown that how many times you brought up this speaker(GENELEC) in active speakers conversation in different threads.

(2) I do not think there is a single problem with that.But it won't going to make any speakers good or bad(active or passive).

(3) Do you have any picture or description of your system to share it with us. Why still a picture?

Cool it, bud.

(1) First time just a few minutes ago I mentioned my experience with Genelec in AC.

(2) I never stated there is "a single problem" with it. Only you said it now. Personal impression does not constitute an accusation.

(2) Already said if you read carefully my post above. An Audio Research tube phono-preamp on CD music driving direct the Genelec. Why need a picture?

c-J

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Which has exactly 'what' to do with the topic of this thread?

Your answer to the thread question appears to be "no," and with zero intention of going that direction.  What is the point of your posts?

Dave.

I was simply responding to your post #566.

If you did not posted it, I'd not have responded mine. OK?

c-J

[jimdgoulding]

Genelec isn't the only game in town.  ATC from the UK makes an active model, I believe it is the "20", that J Gordon Holt critiqued and greatly admired.  I don't think the UK's Meridian has ever made a passive speaker (perhaps they have) and is what I own and they do service to any kind of music I throw at them with an ARC up front.  Different strokes?

[sts9fan]

Let's talk a out the technical merits of active crossovers.

[PRELUDE]

Hi.


Cool it, bud.

(1) First time just a few minutes ago I mentioned my experience with Genelec in AC.

(2) I never stated there is "a single problem" with it. Only you said it now. Personal impression does not constitute an accusation.

(2) Already said if you read carefully my post above. An Audio Research tube phono-preamp on CD music driving direct the Genelec. Why need a picture?

c-J

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=104175.140

[playntheblues]

let's get back on topic, if you don't carry on your cat fights through PM's instead of bothering us, it shows us you just want attention.  COME ON NOW