[ServerAdmin]

Um, yeah, cab, this circle is subtitled "A circle for planar and electrostatic speaker lovers." So love for planars and electrostatics is what one would expect to see.

[Rclark]

If planars were factually the best, they are all that would be sold in the marketplace. The fact is, there are far more manufacturers of box speakers and far more of them sold. A lot of people obviously think differently. Clearly it is a matter of taste (or lack thereof) and opinion, not something that can be objectively defined for all. Just like amps, dacs, etc.

That's not true. Planars are far too temperamental and placement centric for the majority.

[medium jim]

That's not true. Planars are far too temperamental and placement centric for the majority.

Rclark:

True, but once they have found their happy spots, wow!

Jim

[Rclark]

Rclark:

True, but once they have found their happy spots, wow!

Jim

yep. WOW!

[rollo]

Last time, no personal attacks, please.
If you want to fight, get married.

  Steve great line I laughed for quite awhile.


charles

[cab]

That's not true. Planars are far too temperamental and placement centric for the majority.

Exactly. For some, placement, for others, bass reproduction, for still others, sweet spot. There are limitations to everything, thus, to each his own, and nothing is the best in all circumstances....

[SteveFord]

That is something we can all agree on and move forward to the original question:
has the number of manufacturers actually increased recently?

[medium jim]

That is something we can all agree on and move forward to the original question:
has the number of manufacturers actually increased recently?

Sure seems like there are to me.

Jim

[*Scotty*]

I may be mistaken, but I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of planer type speaker mfgrs. While this may represent a 50% to 100% increase in the number of mfgrs., I don't think this anything like the definition of a growth industry. Hope springs eternal for people starting up a business devoted to building loudspeakers, including those who wish to make planer type loudspeakers. However, I don't think there is any general consensus among audiophiles regarding planer type loudspeakers as being superior to other loudspeaker designs. For over 30 years Magnepan has offered the audiophile the lowest entry fee of any manufacturer I know of to incorporate a planer type loudspeaker into their system, and even this has not been enough to create any trend towards planers and away from boxes.
  In point of fact a MG 3.7 or 20.7 is just plain visually imposing, if the sock is black they are strongly reminiscent of the Monolith from 2001 and I think this the single biggest factor blocking the wider acceptance planer type loudspeakers. The truth is, even the smallest maggie is not as visually unobtrusive as a small box sitting on a shelf. When I had MGIIIs in our living room my wife usually asked me at least once a week why the loudspeakers had to be so far away from the front wall, they were about 4ft. in front of the bay window at the time.   
Scotty

[Rclark]

Exactly. For some, placement, for others, bass reproduction, for still others, sweet spot. There are limitations to everything, thus, to each his own, and nothing is the best in all circumstances....

Yet I have no desire whatsoever to change them out for something more practical. I recently compared them to a popular Neo3 speaker and it was no contest. They are pure magic. And framed, have bass output that would surprise you.

[kevin360]

Best? Hmm, I love my 3.7s dearly, but I'd kick 'em to the curb for this speaker system – without hesitation. I heard these at AXPONA a while back and they are marvelous – damn near perfect in every way. If money were no object...


I'd give up my 3.7s for a pair of these too – expensive yes, but absolutely worth it (if only I had the cash (or fewer competing interests )). I can only imagine what their bigger brothers sound like. Those amps are amazing as well, and after a full day of driving the 101Es to quite significant sound levels, I could only find a small area of the chassis that even got slightly warm.


Hell, I think these are excellent as well, and they aren't stratospherically priced.


There are lots of speakers that would make me happy. What I love most about Magnepan is that their speakers are within reach of average folks like I am. Well, that and the fact that they sound so amazingly good while being so incredibly affordable. I do love the way planars image and Magnepan's ribbon tweeter is downright magical (for want of a better word).

[BruceSB]

I think the grill cloth on planars is arguably their biggest draw back.
I still remember the first time my wife saw my spectra 22s and mentioned "the big black coffins".
I wish I had $10 dollars (for my various upgrades) for every time I have heard that!!!
I wonder what she would say to those great big SoundLabs!
I think that is why final & martin logan put a lot effort into the grill-less, see-through look.
Unfortunately some electrostatic designs just do not lend themselves to see-through.
Just as an aside, I am enjoying my time her in the US.
Oceanside reminds me very much of Melbourne!!

[medium jim]

And I used to think Avantgarde Trio's were the schnitzle, but I will take my Maggies over the 100K trio's:



Although, the trio's are really good and dynamic....sort of Open Baffle meets Dynamic, meets Horns.  Rclark was on point about the only drawback of planars', fussy placement and I will add WAF....but in the end, there just isn't another speaker that can do what a planar can do for anywhere the price point.   We are comparing speakers that cost 100K and upwards to speakers that start at less than 1K.  More to the point, the 3.7's at less than 6k hold their own and the 20.7's are equals at less than 14k.  Not to mention all of the used true ribbon Magnepan's that can be had for even less. 

I've owned some amazing speakers and the ones that captured my ears and heart were the planars'.  Funny thing is, now I have to audition several different makes of planars to see if there is something even better than what I have now....It will be a fun next couple of years!

Jim

[JohnR]

I may be mistaken, but I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of planer type speaker mfgrs.

Magnepan
Quad
ER Audio
GT Audio Works
Sanders
Analysis Audio
Martin Logan
Eminent Technology
King Sound
Innersound
Soundlab
Janszen
Audiostatic
...?

[*Scotty*]

Kevin, I have to agree with your "affordable" description of Magneplaners, in my opinion they offer possibly one of the very best "bangs for the buck" of any loudspeaker currently available. They do many things very well and if they push your buttons it will take the more expensive next model up to beat the one you currently have, or a much more expensive execution of a different technology to exceed the maggies particular collection of strengths.
Jim, I think if I were looking for better "planer design" it would have to keep the overall coherence of the current .7 model lineup and exceed their peak SPL capability with better dynamic life. However, I wouldn't accept a loss of the magic that the transformerless Magneplaner ribbon brings to the table in order to achieve the improvements in performance in the two areas I listed.
Scotty

[*Scotty*]

John, I find it interesting that of the 13 speaker companies you listed, only four of them are planer magnetic designs while the others are electrostatics. I guess I was thinking only of companies producing planer magnetic speakers. I tend to separate planer magnetic designs from properly done electrostatic designs due to the differences in distortion levels between the two types of loudspeakers.
Many electrostatic speakers have distortion levels as low as some power amplifiers. This in may part explain why they sound similar to but different than planer magnetic speaker designs.
Scotty

[JohnR]

John, I find it interesting that of the 13 speaker companies you listed, only four of them are planer magnetic designs while the others are electrostatics. I guess I was thinking only of companies producing planer magnetic speakers. I tend to separate planer magnetic designs from properly done electrostatic designs due to the differences in distortion levels between the two types of loudspeakers.

I thought there were only three! I only listed those with large panels. I don't really know but I guess large planar-magnetic panels are harder to make than electrostatics. If you include speakers that use smaller planar-magnetic panels (whether single or in arrays) there are a lot more. Actually, Eminent is in that class anyway... I guess at some point it becomes a matter of definition... how much "panel" is needed to be a "planar magnetic speaker." 

[medium jim]

Add Bohlander, ESL and a few others to the list.  I'm sure that I'm missing several that JohnR didn't mention.  I used to be give me slam and mass quantities of dynamics in a speaker, that was until I bought a pair of 1.6's and was blown away how a speaker that cost me $700.00 (used) sounded better than any box speaker that gad owned at the time.

For whatever reason, I sold the 1.6's, but never could get the sound of them out of my head for 4 years at which point I was ready to buy a traded in pair of 3.6's and as a lark bought a pair of 2.5's that were on Craigslist.  After refurbishing them I again had that undefinable sound that only a Magnepan could deliver.  To me they were better sounding than the 3.6's as they were seamless, had better bass, and had a deeper and wider soundstage. Frankly, there is no other speaker that produces the soundstage that planars do at anywhere near the cost.  Or that the walls just seem to disappear and leaves the listener with near perfect instrument placement and instrument separation that was reserved for speakers that cost a small fortune.

Jim

[Rocket_Ronny]

Yet I have no desire whatsoever to change them out for something more practical.

RClark-What speakers are those?

Rocket_Ronny

[*Scotty*]

I definitely think big area planers, where a portion of the panel is dedicated to the bass or perhaps a hybrid like GT Audio Works.
As opposed to planer magnetic designs where there is a relatively small area, used over a limited frequency range. If we include designs that use planer magnetic tweeters as "planers" then the speaker I am currently using falls in the planer speaker category.
Large area planer magnetic dipoles definitely sound much different than speakers using smaller monopole planer magnetic mid-ranges or tweeters.
Scotty