How do you have your DeCappos set up?

Terry · « **on:** 12 Jun 2004, 11:57 am »

I have posted a number of times in this circle that I have found the Divergent Tech. recommended set up for the DeCapppos to be the best. That is, sitting at the apex of the equilateral triangle formed by the distance between the center of each speaker and an equal distance to the listening chair. Recently, however, I got bored and decided to try a different set up. So I moved the speakers considerably closer together and substantially increased the distance to the listening chair. The speakers are now only 6' apart and I am sitting about 10' back. Hmmm, there is definitely something to be said for this arrangement. I am not certain if the tonal balance is quite as good but the soundstage and imaging are superb.

I would appreciate if you would share your experiences with arranging your DeCappos in your listening room. Thanks!

Jonathan · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Jun 2004, 03:58 pm »

My De Capos are in a 13 x 13 room. after using the software from Speakerworx (basically the Cardas method) I positioned the speakers around 70" from the back wall, around 43" from the sides, 70" apart, and I'm sitting around 70" from them. This is a much more near-field set up than I've ever had, but it's pretty great sounding. The center images sound like they're coming from way behind the speakers and things spread out pretty much from wall to wall when they're panned far apart in the mix.

The other night, my wife was sitting in "the chair" listening to Gilels' solo piano recordings of Grieg's Lyric Pieces. It was the first time she had really sat down and listened to the speakers in this configuration; about two minutes into it she asked me why the sound was coming out of the components on the rack rather than out of the speakers. I had to explain that this was just an auditory illusion.

In this setup, the speakers literally do not sound like the source of the music. Pretty cool.

Terry · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Jun 2004, 07:15 pm »

Hi Jonathan,

Yes, your set up is almost exactly as I had them before this recent experiment. Actually, I was not completely truthful in my original post. Boredom was not the reason that I decided to move the DeCappos but, rather, an attempt to accomodate a larger listening group. There is not much doubt that the DeCappos sound superb set up as recommended; however, this is really only ideal for one person listening. In this respect, the DeCappos are not that different than the Quad ESL 57s. For 5 or 6 people to listen together, the near field approach just does not cut it. So I am interested in the experience that others have had with the DeCappos set up differently.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Jonathan · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Jun 2004, 03:50 pm »

You're right about this setup being a one-person situation. With these distances, I have room for one chair and nothing more (I always feel like that guy in the Maxell cassette tape ad).

On the other hand, when I've set the speakers up in a more socially-accomodating room, I've had them in several different positions, ranging from nearly against the wall and about 7' apart with a big TV in between them, to that same distance apart, but a couple of feet out into the room. They do their best disappearing act when pulled way out, but even in less-than-ideal positions (from an audiophile perspective) I have found them to sound darn good, and no matter how they've been set up, the side to side imaging has always been great.

davejcb · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Jun 2004, 08:47 pm »

Quote from: Jonathan

...about 7' apart with a big TV in between them...

Hey Jonathan, have you noticed any difference at all when having the TV between them? I'm redoing my room right now, wondering if it's worth it to get the TV out of there, even if it's inconvenient.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Jun 2004, 08:51 pm »

Getting "anything" (especially a tv) out between the speakers will absolutely help.

If you can't move it, at least put a blanket over it. You will be shocked at the improvement.

George

davejcb · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Jun 2004, 09:26 pm »

Terry,

Have you been able to get a decent "window" for a few people to listen in? I'm soon to start placing my Royal Masters, soon as the room is done, and I'd like to be able to have 2-3 people listen at the best possible quality. Is it doable?

Terry · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Jun 2004, 10:43 pm »

Quote from: davejcb

Terry,

Have you been able to get a decent "window" for a few people to listen in? I'm soon to start placing my Royal Masters, soon as the room is done, and I'd like to be able to have 2-3 people listen at the best possible quality. Is it doable?

Hi Dave,

Oh yes! Set up as they currently are (6' apart and with the chair about 9' back) the imaging is quite good for 3 people abreast. With a another set of chairs behind, I can easily accomodate 3 more but the soundstage and imaging is not quite as good for these listeners. Of course, the person sitting in the middle chair still gets the best sound but this would be expected. However, the tonal balance in this position is still not quite as good as nearfield listening (sitting at the apex of the triangle) but it is still quite acceptable.

Jonathan · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Jun 2004, 10:56 pm »

Quote from: davejcb

Quote from: Jonathan
...about 7' apart with a big TV in between them...

Hey Jonathan, have you noticed any difference at all when having the TV between them?

Surprisingly, the side to side imaging remains intact, even with the TV there, although I have the speakers forward of the plane of the front of the TV. The biggest weakness with the speakers positioned this far back against the wall is that there's little sense of front to back space.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 12:49 am »

Here are some photos of how my room is setup. They aren't the greatest and our room is a mess with all the new baby stuff (we're moving into a house as this one bedroom apartment just ain't cuttin' it).

I have my listening seat against the wall to the rear of the photo (not pictured) and I am seated 8ft from my DC's which are 8ft apart as well. So I have the equilateral triangle setup going but the sound isn't bad off to the sides. I used to have the DC's closer to the back wall but in this room it just didn't sound right so this closer setup works best.

Took a while to slowly inch my speakers out every week so my wife didnt notice them moving ever closer into the middle of the room. The room is 16ft deep by about 12ft wide but I have to go back and measure the width again.

Sadly in our new place I won't have my own audio room (we're buying a house that has an accessory apartment of 1000sqft in the basement which we'll be renting out to help cover our mortgage). We plan to live in the house for 3-5 years, move out and then keep it as a duplex. The income will mostly go to support my addiction to audiophilia.

davejcb · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 12:54 am »

What height are those Osiris stands? Have you played with that as well?

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 06:52 am »

Quote from: davejcb

What height are those Osiris stands? Have you played with that as well?

They are the 24.5" model which can be adjusted up to about 26.5" if you raise the spikes all the way up. Before I had this set of Osiris stands I had a pair of their 27.5" stands which could go up to 29.5"

The only reason I changed was because I was told that Reference 3A recommends to use a 24" stand. I made a mistake by selling the taller stands. At 6'3" I am not a giant or anything but I find myself crouching into my couch to get better image height and focus.

I should just get some concrete stones to put under my stands to experiment with placement height again to see how it sounds. I bet I could gain another 1-2" extra to see how it sounds.

Of course placement height also has to do with your seating and how tall you are so maybe my experience is different than someone else's.

Thanks Dave for getting me to think about this again.

Terry · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Jun 2004, 09:09 pm »

Quote from: heavystarch

I should just get some concrete sto ...

I have experimented quite a lot with different heights and I have settled on 28" for my DeCappos. I also have 24" stands and I raised the height by placing two patio stones under each speaker. You can actually get pation stones in different colours (mine are kind of rose coloured) and they are actually quite attractive. You are a lot taller than me so I suspect you would find raising them a few inches to be very beneficial.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Jun 2004, 10:19 pm »

OK, did some measurements. Here is my room size 16 X 13 X 10. I have the De Capo I's 2 ft 10 inches out from the front wall and 4 feet from the side walls. They are 6 feet apart and I sit approximately 9 feet from the speakers.

Michael

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Jun 2004, 02:48 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71

OK, did some measurements. Here is my room size 16 X 13 X 10. I have the De Capo I's 2 ft 10 inches out from the front wall and 4 feet from the side walls. They are 6 feet apart and I sit approximately 9 feet from the speakers.

Michael

Your room has almost the same dimensions as mine. I might try sitting a bit closer as this will help to widen the sound, give you more depth and better stereo imaging.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Jun 2004, 02:50 am »

Quote from: Terry

Quote from: heavystarch
I should just get some concrete sto ...

I have experimented quite a lot with different heights and I have settled on 28" for my DeCappos. I also have 24" stands and I raised the height by placing two patio stones under each speaker. You can actually get pation stones in different colours (mine are kind of rose coloured) and they are actually quite attractive. You are a lot taller than me so I suspect you would find raising them a few inches to be very beneficial.

I think I am going to Home Depot tomorrow morning then. They open at 6:00AM here so I will have time to go get the stones, come back, set it up and my wife still won't know I was gone.

Terry · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Jun 2004, 11:21 pm »

Quote from: mcrespo71

OK, did some measurements. Here is my room size 16 X 13 X 10. I have the De Capo I's 2 ft 10 inches out from the front wall and 4 feet from the side walls. They are 6 feet apart and I sit approximately 9 feet from the speakers.

Wow! I would never have predicted that the DeCappos would sound good that close to the front wall. Just out of curiousity, did you try moving them farther out into the room and, if so, what was the result?

RickRichardson · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Aug 2004, 05:01 pm »

I have a home office system in a 12 X 10 room using MM Decapo's on wall brackets designed for small TV's. Driven by a 6SN7/76/300B integrated amp. Here are a couple of pics.

The Decapo's sound great for nearfield listening. [/img]

Terry · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Aug 2004, 02:04 pm »

Thanks for the pictures. You have a very interesting set-up. Could you identify that amplifier? I do not recognize it. I agree that the DeCapos sound best in the near field. This is not a problem when listening alone but it is a problem when listening in a group.

RickRichardson · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Aug 2004, 02:06 am »

The amp is a custom 6SN7/76/300B made may a guy in New Jersey who loves to use old transformers from organ amps to build SET amps. I had been using a 6SN7/76 preamp for some time and have a huge collection of 76 tubes, including some very rare and wonderful sounding ones. This amp has volume controls and enough gain so it can be run directly from a CD player. It is a very primitive looking amp, because he also recycles the old organ chassis. It is the worst looking and best sounding amp that I had ever had. I just got a 6SN7/45/845 amp from the same guy, which is also very rough looking and incredibly sweet sounding. The De Capo's are really shining with these amps.