DSD DACs

PhilipAC · « **Reply #200 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 11:25 am »

I am desperate to get a DSD DAC to play all my DSF files, but feel that I need 6 to 12 months to make a "final" decision, given all the choice and number of
prospective new models.

So I am thinking of getting a relatively cheap model now and upgrade (if necessary) later this year/early next year. The choice at about £1500 or less
appears to be as follows:

* Mytek 192
* Chord Qute HD
* Sonore/exD
* Teac UD501
* Matrix X-Sabre

Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated, particularly from those who have heard one or more of them.

Thanks

Philip

ted_b · « **Reply #201 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 12:49 pm »

The Matrix X-Sabre starts shipping tomorrow officially. I will get my demo unit soon, so I will have heard (I own two of the above, Meitner and Mytek, and wrote a review about the Sonore/eXD) most in the list.

PhilipAC · « **Reply #202 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 03:05 pm »

Thanks Ted

Found your comments on Mytek and Sonore.

Your comments on the Matrix vs Mytek and Sonore, when you've got it, would be great to hear. Since it does 32/384 as well as DSD128, I guess
I'm hoping it will hold its own.

Philip

PhilipAC · « **Reply #203 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 03:16 pm »

Ted

Two (probably stupid) questions about your and Jesus's DSD DAC table.

Since they are all DSD DACs, what do "Native DSD in" and "Native DSD out" mean? And if it says USB(ASIO), does this mean it won't work straight from my MacBook Pro?

Thanks

Philip

ted_b · « **Reply #204 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 03:24 pm »

Philip,
Native DSD in simply means to differentiate from DoP, so native would be typically ASIO driver or an SDIF input. Native DSD out is usually HDMi or I2S (i.e will this DAC output a DSD bistream). And yes, I haven't found an ASIO implementation of native DSD (yet) on MAC. But DoP is fine.

wisnon · « **Reply #205 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 03:26 pm »

Phillip

Please respond to my PM.

I have some free time now...

wisnon · « **Reply #206 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 04:18 pm »

If just dipping your toe before getting the "ultimate", in a fully balanced system, I would suggest the Teac, which Valenroy says is on par whith the Mytek for DSD. At about £700 full retail, you cant really lose much if you sell within a year to trade up. It does DSD128, has dual mono construction and is fully balanced with a host of connections. It uses BB1795 chips, I believe. As Mytek brought DSD to the masses, I have a soft spot for them too.

In terms of the ultimate, I have heard good things about the PBD MP5 which upsamples everything to DSD128 internally. PCM is so-so, but DSD is sublime. Costs a pretty penny though.

Cant say much about EMM labs, the Exasound E20, Auralic, Antelope or MSB...

What seems to be clear though is that DSD performance and PCM performance dont have a direct correlation in the same DAC.

ted_b · « **Reply #207 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 04:24 pm »

Quote from: wisnon on 28 Mar 2013, 04:18 pm

In terms of the ultimate, I have heard good things about the PBD MP5 which upsamples everything to DSD128 internally.

So does my Meitner MA-1 and the EMM Labs DAC2X. Same 1 bit chip architecture, the only ones left in the business.

wisnon · « **Reply #208 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 04:57 pm »

OK,

Good to know, so maybe 3 ultimates then! LoL

mfsoa · « **Reply #209 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 10:38 pm »

Hi Ted,

The new Marantz NA-11S1 does "...DSD over PCM." per their website.

Is this real DSD or does it mangle the DSD somehow?

Does DSD over PCM just refer to the way the DSD info is sent to the DAC?

Thanks for all of the hard work you have put in to increase our enjoyment of music

-Mike

Phil A · « **Reply #210 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 10:48 pm »

DSD over PCM or DoP is explained here - http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD_Format

ted_b · « **Reply #211 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: mfsoa on 28 Mar 2013, 10:38 pm

Hi Ted,

The new Marantz NA-11S1 does "...DSD over PCM." per their website.

Is this real DSD or does it mangle the DSD somehow?

Does DSD over PCM just refer to the way the DSD info is sent to the DAC?

Thanks for all of the hard work you have put in to increase our enjoyment of music

-Mike

Yes, Phil's link should help you understand. DSD-over-PCM (aka DoP) is truly native DSD, but is a clever way for DAC mfgers to not have to each write their own ASIO drivers to directly access DSD. Instead, it rides along the at-least-24/176k PCM signal container, with the first 8 bits acting as a sort of flagger to tell the DAC whether it is truly CPM or is it DSD stacked onto the next 16 bits at 176k (a multiple that allows 2.8mh DSD to stack rather easily). it was first invented by the folks at dCS but was then handed over to a consortium of software and hardware teams, led by Andreas Koch of Playback Designs. Pretty clever, actually.

Here is more detail than you need about it

http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard

Maxvla · « **Reply #212 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 07:37 am »

Hey guys, wanted to mention a new DSD DAC, a revision of one of the best value DACs out there, the Resonessence Concero. This new version will be available sometime late in April and will change from the ESS9023 chip (current) to ESS9016. The 9023 in the current implementation is not DSD capable, the 9016 will be. There are a few other tweaks in this version, mostly to accommodate the new chip, and the price will rise to $800, keeping it a very good value, but not quite as no-brainer as before. This DAC will certainly be the value DSD DAC of choice, IMO. If you need balanced output, the X-Sabre is waiting for you at the $1100 mark and ships starting today.

I just got my X-Sabre back from a review tour with some forum friends where it did well among a group including PSAudio PWD2, Mytek Stereo 192, and Schiit Gungnir (only one of these is DSD capable).

wisnon · « **Reply #213 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 10:26 am »

The $850 Teac is the real value play. Dual mono and fully balanced, lots of connectivity and DSD128 capable....

PhilipAC · « **Reply #214 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 02:44 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 28 Mar 2013, 04:24 pm

So does my Meitner MA-1 and the EMM Labs DAC2X. Same 1 bit chip architecture, the only ones left in the business.

Does this mean these DACs AUTOMATICALLY upsample to DSD128, or just that it is a user option?

Has anyone heard enough of the Playback Designs MPD 5 to give feedback, particularly vs Emmlabs DAC2X?

PhilipAC · « **Reply #215 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 02:46 pm »

Ted

Do you know when your Matrix X-Sabre will be arriving please?

ted_b · « **Reply #216 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: PhilipAC on 29 Mar 2013, 02:44 pm

Does this mean these DACs AUTOMATICALLY upsample to DSD128, or just that it is a user option?

Has anyone heard enough of the Playback Designs MPD 5 to give feedback, particularly vs Emmlabs DAC2X?

The 1 bit DAC architecture of my Meitner (and the others) automatically upsamples to DSD128. That is its processing rate.

Quote from: PhilipAC on 29 Mar 2013, 02:46 pm

Ted

Do you know when your Matrix X-Sabre will be arriving please?

Any time now; I actually thought it would have been last week or so..as the reviewer (not Maxvla) was finished.

PhilipAC · « **Reply #217 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 04:37 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 29 Mar 2013, 03:03 pm

The 1 bit DAC architecture of my Meitner (and the others) automatically upsamples to DSD128. That is its processing rate.

Forgive me if I'm missing something, Ted, but I thought you (and many others) favoured listening to music in its native format? With these DACS, presumably
one can't listen to any PCM files in their native format? Wouldn't it be better to have a DAC where any up sampling/conversion is optional?

Maxvla · « **Reply #218 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 04:45 pm »

Quote from: wisnon on 29 Mar 2013, 10:26 am

The $850 Teac is the real value play. Dual mono and fully balanced, lots of connectivity and DSD128 capable....

I'd have to hear it to believe something with that much going on inside it isn't compromised.

Phil A · « **Reply #219 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 04:45 pm »

All I can say is that redbook and PCM sound amazing on the Meitner MA-1. I've owned other DACs