[medium jim]

I've found that the early cd's from ECM are not to bad ie. Pat Metheny or John Abercrombie

LOL

Jim

[James Lehman]

It's not nice to laugh at people for their personal taste, or lack there of. It's a big world. There's room for all of us..... I think. This statements is for anyone who thinks they know all there is to know about everything.

I mean, apart from myself, of course.

[Quiet Earth]

I will try to play some of my old ECM cds tomorrow mj and get back to you on that. I have witchitah falls, off ramp, and some other jazz ECM of the day.

Stay tuned . . .

[jimdgoulding]

Makes sense to me to invest in a contemporary quality player.  Read and ask.

[decal]

Makes sense to me to invest in a contemporary quality player.  Read and ask.

B-I-N-G-O, we have a winner.

[Diamond Dog]

Makes sense to me to invest in a contemporary quality player.  Read and ask.

That's what I thought, too...and that's bad for you, Jim. You definitely don't want to think like me.....

D.D.

[Diamond Dog]

I've found that the early cd's from ECM are not to bad ie. Pat Metheny or John Abercrombie

LOL

Jim

Medium Jim:  If someone replied to one of your posts like that, you'd either spend the rest of the thread cryin' about it or you'd be PM-ing the mod and JohnR. I seem to recall you lecturing a fellow mod/volunteer not that long ago about how posts like that were a poor example for the rest of us.
Try walking the walk.

D.D. 

[Howard Swayne]

my father was a recording engineer @RCA/Chicago in the early 70s. we would bring home vinyl cut from the master lathe the had at the studios. i also got to listen to some of the original Tascam master tapes. the audio quality was really quite stunning. of course, this is comparing it to the stereotypical cradenza audio system we had at home. i believe it was all relative. home audio at the time was all crap, or at least what our friends and family had. what i listened to at the studio was a revelation, and that is why i am an audiophile today.
i have some of this same music on CDs today. it has been difficult to build a system that makes them enjoyable sonically. they still sound like compressed crap compared to todays nicer recordings, but they sound good enough to where i dont cringle and feel like someone is taking a cheese grater to my brain. 
what this has done for me is open my eyes to vast collections of music i would never had tried, strictly for the sonic enjoyment. i scour forums like this for new artists and recommendations.

Thanks for shareing that. Youve got a lot of jealous drooling audiophiles out here. Ive always thought of CD to stand for 'compromised digital', and agree with Mikey Fremmer that "Even a modest analogue playback system will make you want to throw your cd player against the wall." I got my first cd player in late 82 early 83, and while the occasional recording will surprise, tend to find the digital format still sadly lacking. I have a fine all analogue/tube system. I can put on a dc and in 5 minutes, unconsciously find my self doing something else while the music plays in the background. A good album, or analogue master tape, on the other hand keeps me glued to my chair.

[medium jim]

Medium Jim:  If someone replied to one of your posts like that, you'd either spend the rest of the thread cryin' about it or you'd be PM-ing the mod and JohnR. I seem to recall you lecturing a fellow mod/volunteer not that long ago about how posts like that were a poor example for the rest of us.
Try walking the walk.

D.D.

I think people are looking for things....I was LOL'g about abercrombie and metheny....it was funny my friend....

BTW, I like both....

Jim

[Quiet Earth]

OK, so I played a handful early ECM CDs since my last visit. They are from the 80’s and I believe they represent the first generation category :

Pat Metheny - Wichita Falls and Offramp
Kenny Wheeler _ Gnu High
Oregon – Oregon and Ecotopia
Ralph Towner – Old Friends
Zakir Hussain – Making Music
Jan Garbarek – All Those Born With Wings

I also played Abercrombie’s – November, but that one is from 1993.

Out of all of these discs, the only one that left me wanting better sound quality was Wichita Falls. (Offramp was a distant second.) Wichita is a good example of the digital black hole syndrome, where notes can fall into the digital void before they get their chance to decay into silence. I had to really crank up the volume to get any life out of this CD. I attribute the vague sound quality to a poor transfer through the A/D converter. Bass was anemic too, so maybe the disc was made from a RIAA master? I don’t have a clue. Either way, one out of eight CDs is not helping to promote the myth that all first generation CDs sound terrible.

I want to make a comment about the increased recording levels we have seen over the years. Even though the early discs are now the poster children of how not to play the loudness game, I think a lot of them were recorded way too cold. I have no idea why they thought the maximum peaks should be at or below -20dB fs, but I’m sure they had their reasons. It seems like -10 or -6 would have been a better target. And compression? Compression is not such a terrible thing when used tastefully. I’m no mastering engineer but I do know that a little salt and pepper can go a long way. I would never remove a spice from my kitchen just because some other guy used way too much of it.

Anyway, back to the subject title. I am still surprised just how much great music and great sounding music can be found on the old CD. Find yourself a nice CD player that makes musical sense out of 16 bits and enjoy as many CDs as you can while they are still available.  People will only cry for the good old days when they go out of production. Don’t be that guy who got into the game after it was too late.

Bon Appetit! 

[Rclark]

Nice write up 

So one out of six no good? Plus mine makes six good ones to one bad. That seems to hold up my theory about old cd's. Pretty neat considering how cheap they are now. I've bought albums for a penny and 2.99 shipping.

Yes, get a good quality, modern player like the ERC-2, it makes sweet sweet music.

[jackman]

Medium Jim:  If someone replied to one of your posts like that, you'd either spend the rest of the thread cryin' about it or you'd be PM-ing the mod and JohnR. I seem to recall you lecturing a fellow mod/volunteer not that long ago about how posts like that were a poor example for the rest of us.
Try walking the walk.

D.D.

+1 

 

[medium jim]

Wow, humor is not allowed?  There was no intent or otherwise to my post.  It did reveal a lot though!!!

Jim

[medium jim]

There is nothing wrong with the 1st Gen CD's, in fact many are superior to the compressed stuff of today.  One the comes to mind is Brother in Arms by Dire Straights...said to be the first DDD

Jim

[jackman]

Also, I am not a fan of first generation CD's.  I've got some really early ones that I rarely listen to including a version of Kind of Blue and several other CD's that do not sound as good as modern CD's.  I recall some of the older CD's, as someone mentioned, as often  "cold" or sterile sounding, but it probably had a lot to do with my system at the time.  Again, I'm talking early, first generation CD's.  They got better over time.

My first CD was Dark Side of the Moon and I played it on a first gen, Technics CD player.  That CD player was a tank and never died, even after years of abuse.  Unfortunately, the CDP was complete crap sounding.  It was heavy and overbuilt, with a cool prism that let you see the CD spinning, but it sounded very hard and "digital".  It even had a light on the front that said "Digital". 

I got it when I was a senior in high school and I recall the day I invited my hot neighbor girl (Kristy!), who was a year older than me, to my room to listen to DSOTM on this "exotic new CD player".   Unfortunately, we actually listened to music, and that was it.  Doh...

[Freo-1]

I had read in Audio magizine back when CD first came out that the early produced CD were copied directly from masters that were equalized for LP.  So, it makes sense that some of the early CDs would sound muddled.  Also, jitter was a lot higher back then.

[jimdgoulding]

The first phonograph records didn't sound too cool either.  It's all relative.

[kevin360]

I had read in Audio magizine back when CD first came out that the early produced CD were copied directly from masters that were equalized for LP.  So, it makes sense that some of the early CDs would sound muddled.  Also, jitter was a lot higher back then.

I serious doubt the validity of this claim. The RIAA pre-emphasis EQ is quite extreme. A CD produced with such an EQ curve would sound beyond atrocious - with anemic bass and treble so loud that it would be unlistenable. I have lots of early CDs - they are fine. In fact, some are outstanding. Since DSOTM was mentioned, I'll comment that the initial Japanese 'pressing' I have is exemplary.

The first generation players left something to be desired, but I still have my Philips CD100 and it still works (I don't use it though - haven't for almost 30 years).

[Freo-1]

I serious doubt the validity of this claim. The RIAA pre-emphasis EQ is quite extreme. A CD produced with such an EQ curve would sound beyond atrocious - with anemic bass and treble so loud that it would be unlistenable. I have lots of early CDs - they are fine. In fact, some are outstanding. Since DSOTM was mentioned, I'll comment that the initial Japanese 'pressing' I have is exemplary.

The first generation players left something to be desired, but I still have my Philips CD100 and it still works (I don't use it though - haven't for almost 30 years).

I'm pretty sure it's true.  I had a first generation release of Hendrix Electric Ladyland (on two CD's), and I know that was taken from the LP mix.  I was pretty happy when the second generation release came out on a single CD.  They sounded way different.  Some of the early CD's do sound fine, but some do not.   

[jackman]

I serious doubt the validity of this claim. The RIAA pre-emphasis EQ is quite extreme. A CD produced with such an EQ curve would sound beyond atrocious - with anemic bass and treble so loud that it would be unlistenable. I have lots of early CDs - they are fine. In fact, some are outstanding. Since DSOTM was mentioned, I'll comment that the initial Japanese 'pressing' I have is exemplary.

The first generation players left something to be desired, but I still have my Philips CD100 and it still works (I don't use it though - haven't for almost 30 years).

Hi Kev,
I'm pretty sure this was not the Japanese pressing but it was a really early version.  I also still have "Wish You Were Here" and it's not a great recording.  It also has all of the songs "together", you can't forward to the next one because there is only one official song on the CD...the whole album.  I hate this.

Cheers,

Jack