[msommers]

Hi guys,

I'm having a hard time deciding between these two. I've read some searched posts as well but I'd like to get more feedback. I'd also like to add that I have discussed things with Jim for the most part but he's on the road at the moment (thanks again for updating me).

Size is a factor given my space but also bass penetration to my neighbor. I  live in a duplex and in my basement where I want to setup my system is also the common wall. Jim has seen this layout but I'll post it here for reference (not to scale). The black bars are walls or pillars and the blue is a large window; red squares are tower placement:



Cost is a concern but if the HT2 is quite a bit better I don't mind spending the extra. The difference lies in that I don't know how much difference I will see from a 5" woofer to a 7" in the future. Additionally whenever I move into my own home, I'll add a subwoofer and crossover the towers anyways. At that point, how much difference is there going to be between these two models?

I'm using an Anthem MRX 500 as both a receiver and amp at this point because of budget constraints.

Lastly I know that Jim is in the process of setting up an audition, but if anyone in Alberta, Canada has either of these speakers I'd make the trip to listen. I'm on the road a lot anyways for work. Plus there would be a bottle of white or red in it for you

Thanks,
Matthew

[Nuance]

I might be the only one that feels this way, but this is a no brainer for me: Go with the Super-Charged SongTower's.  They are slimmer/smaller and will fit your space better, especially considering the room is only 11 feet wide.  They'll still get down into the low 30's with authority, and due to the smaller woofers they should have slightly better dispersion.  You'll still get the resolution of the HT2-TL's because the woofs are from the same family line, but you'll have a little more leeway with placement, and I think the smaller size will go better with the look of the room.  YMMV and to each their own, of course.

[TJHUB]

I'm an HT2-TL owner that has heard ST-RT's in my room (Nuance's), and I would go with the SC-ST's without thinking twice about it.  The fact that you will be adding a sub later makes the decision easy IMO. 

I say save the difference in cost, and apply those dollars to the sub purchase.   

[caper334@hotmail.com]

I was always wanting HT TL then I bought the supercharged songtowers....bass out of these speakers is great...I always used my sub now I listen to everything in 2 channel...to be honest which anyone you choose will sound incredible...I to was like you wondering which....My supercharged towers are really impressive....you will be happy either way

[Saturn94]

Another vote for the SCST for all the reasons already mentioned.

BTW, I'm a HT2-TL owner, but would have went with the SCST had they been available back then.

[Big Red Machine]

I'm an HT2-TL owner that has heard ST-RT's in my room (Nuance's), and I would go with the SC-ST's without thinking twice about it.  The fact that you will be adding a sub later makes the decision easy IMO. 

I say save the difference in cost, and apply those dollars to the sub purchase.   

Blasphemer!

[jsalk]

This is an interesting question.

Basically, both speakers are very similar terms of midrange and tweeter performance (which makes sense since they both use the RAAL tweet and the same cone material for the midwoofers).  The cabinets are also tuned the same, so the bass extension is the same.

The area where they differ is in the "weight" of the bass.  While they are playing the same bass notes, the HT2-TL's simply move more air down low providing a greater sense of bass "heft."

Over the past couple of months, on two separate occassions, I have had customers come to our shop to evaluate the Supercharged SongTowers.   Both were both very impressed with the sound quality, but both wondered if they should consider the HT2-TL's before making a decision.

In the first case, we had a pair of HT2-TL's available, but the customer wanted to hear Superchraged SongTowers in order to determine if he could save some money.  So we built a pair of SC ST's to allow him a direct A/B comparison. 

In the second case, the customer could not decide without hearing the two designs next to one another.  So we built a pair of each and allowed the customer to take delivery of whichever one he chose.

In both cases, the customers loved the Supercharged SongTowers and both indicated they would be very happy with that speaker.  But in both cases, they went home with HT2-TL's.  They just loved the additional authority in the bass area.

The nice thing is, you really can't make a bad decision.  The top end of both speakers is extremely detailed and transparent.  And the midrange quality of both designs is extremely high.  So while you might prefer the HT2-TL's in a A/B comparison, the fact remains that you would be extremely happy with the Supercharged SongTowers if that was your choice.  You can't make a bad decision either way.

- Jim

[martyo]

Thanks Jim. Bass "heft", YES.

[TJHUB]

Blasphemer!

I am, and always will be!!! 

[msommers]

Audiocircle,

Appreciate all the feedback! It's given me a lot to think about.

The cost is essentially a wash between the HT2-TL and the STSC+Song sub. I remember when I first started looking at speakers, I told myself more than $1500 was "freakin' ridiculous." Somehow, that line has drastically moved!

The size still needs to be determined for the space. When I arrive back home from the field, I've been "asked" to build mock speakers using the supplied dimensions to see how far out either speaker will stick out, with a minimum of 1ft from the wall. I know she won't like them sticking way out and to be honest, I don't think I will either. But that has yet to be determined.

In terms of "heft", I'm not sure if this effect will be reproduced by the sub or simply is a function of a 2" bigger woofer and relatively large increase in cabinet size. Jim, have you been able to compare these two setups? Additionally, are either one of these setups preferable to listening at low to moderate volumes?

While authoritative bass, "heft" and full range are ideal characteristics for me in the sound signature, alas, I have to bear in mind my elderly neighbors who have been nothing short of spectacular neighbors. Still waiting to hear back if the common wall is pure cement or not. I don't listen at reference levels but I'm not sure how the lower frequencies will travel through the walls. 

The way I'm leaning right now is to get the STSC and sub (same time or later). If and when we are still enjoying the Salks but looking for more and we have the space for a dedicated listening room, I may sell these, or put them somewhere else and additionally purchase something from the grand daddy series...Soundscape. Hopefully I'll have got a promotion in between then!

Still, I have an appointment set up to listen to the entire line of stock our Totem dealer has and additionally need to hear the Salks. The thought of spending effectively a total ~$6,000 without hearing them is bordering on the line of lunacy (IMO).

I appreciate all the feedback and look forward to hearing more input from the community.

Matthew

[guf]

I think a lot of people are or were in the  same boat. Spending more than they wanted to originally, and spending without even hearing.  i went the exact same route you did and ended up with the ht2-tls. ro regrets. I could not be happier. I am a non sub user for music. so maybe that influences decisions. Also they has been lots of  used ht2-tls for sale the past 6 months.( mostly from people upgrading to the ss8's.)  its possible to get a great deal and get a sub. if you are like most people you are going to love what ever you get and often wonder how much better is it going to sound when you eventually up grade.
good luck.

[Saturn94]

Also keep in mind going with the SCST/Sub combo will give you more flexibility in tuning the bass levels.  It's often the case that the best spot for imaging and soundstage is not the best place for bass response.  With a separate sub you can place the sub for the best bass and place the L&R mains where they image best.

When comparing my HT2-TLs full range sans sub vs crossing the HT2-TLs over the by SVS sub at about 80hz, the HT2-TL/sub combo sounds better.  Not only is the bass response smoother but the midrange sounds cleaner since the mid drivers no longer have to take on bass duties (less cone excursion = lower distortion).

I've found the above to be true with any speakers I've listened to in my room (I guess I'm one of the blasphemers! ).

[TJHUB]

Also keep in mind going with the SCST/Sub combo will give you more flexibility in tuning the bass levels.  It's often the case that the best spot for imaging and soundstage is not the best place for bass response.  With a separate sub you can place the sub for the best bass and place the L&R mains where they image best.

When comparing my HT2-TLs full range sans sub vs crossing the HT2-TLs over the by SVS sub at about 80hz, the HT2-TL/sub combo sounds better.  Not only is the bass response smoother but the midrange sounds cleaner since the mid drivers no longer have to take on bass duties (less cone excursion = lower distortion).

I've found the above to be true with any speakers I've listened to in my room (I guess I'm one of the blasphemers! ).

HUGE + 1!!  I'd only add that EQ'ing the sub is a must.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  It's also why I will likely never own SS8's. 

Blasphemers RULE! 

[Austin08]

I do enjoy my dual Rythmik when watching blu ray concerts but never miss them when listening to 2 channel materials.

[caper334@hotmail.com]

No risk No reward....

[msommers]

Thanks again for the responses guys.

Regarding a subwoofer, there are a lot of options however I think I've narrowed this down to both price and the fact I will be using it primarily for music:

- SongSub. Can't find much in the way of owners and their impressions. I do like that I could have matching veneers.
- Rythmic F12 or E15. The latter because of the smaller footprint which both of us prefer. I did not realize the real estate some of these woofers have. SPL is not a priority but clean, tight sound is and should compliment the Salks. A problem I see is that I cannot match it to the veneer. Not a huge deal but if I had a choice I'd really prefer it.

Any input on these two subwoofers and their relation to the Salks in question?

Thanks again,
Matthew

[benguin]

Matt- you do have the option of one of the Salk Rythmik too.  And I'm sure Jim can match up any veneer you'd like.

[msommers]

I did see a photo of the Salk/Rythmik variant however the cost was about twice as much and the footprint appeared quite large for the 15" version. That said, I haven't come across any dimensions for any of the Salk subs.

Also regarding the SongSub, because it appears to be side firing, would there be any issue(s) placing it beside one of the towers?

[srb]

I did see a photo of the Salk/Rythmik variant however the cost was about twice as much .....

Actually the pricing is closer to 50% more.
 
Rythmik F12 in black oak vinyl @ $874 vs Salk 12" in standard wood veneers @ $1295 = 48% more.
 
Jim doesn't say which amp (A370 or H600) is used in the Salk 15" version, but as the amp upgrade is $200 more on the Rythmik site (F15 vs. E15), if the $1495 Salk 15" comes with the A370 amp, it might be $1695 (?) with the H600 amp, and also likely be around 50% more.
 
Whether it's worth it to you for perhaps a slightly better built domestic enclosure with gorgeous standard veneer only you can answer.  If you're looking at custom veneers however, then the cost probably would be closer to double.  I think Jim needs to expand the Rythmik subwoofer page with a few more details, options and dimensions.
 
If the budget were tight and I had to choose between the Rythmik F12 and the SongSub though, I would likely choose the Rythmik.
 
Steve

[jonpol]

I did see a photo of the Salk/Rythmik variant however the cost was about twice as much and the footprint appeared quite large for the 15" version. That said, I haven't come across any dimensions for any of the Salk subs.

Also regarding the SongSub, because it appears to be side firing, would there be any issue(s) placing it beside one of the towers?

Here's a post I made with the dimensions of my SongSub:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94452.msg943135#msg943135

And here's a post Jim made about positioning (although it doesn't exactly address your specific question):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97241.msg975167#msg975167

As far as my impressions: I've never regretted getting it, but I also don't have nearly the experience of others here and have no idea how it would compare to a Rythmik sub. Ask questions if you have them, though