Dspeaker Dual Core review

rodge827 · « **Reply #20 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 12:54 am »

Quote from: medium jim on 23 Oct 2012, 12:33 am

I have no problem with it being discussed here and in fact, welcome the discussion. However, it is bad protocol to direct the AC Membership to leave this forum and go to another. Not being a hard arse, just asking for respect of the AC.

Thanks for your understanding,

Jim

Jim,

Your making a lot about nothing here!

I for one belong to many different audio forums, and send links to AC if I feel that it will be helpful.
AC is my "home" forum and I don't feel that I'm disrespecting this forums' sanctity.
In fact I've brought a few new members over from other forums.

Do you have anything constructive to offer about the Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0?

I will be posting more about it tomorrow.

srb · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 12:56 am »

I've posted relevant forum links in other circles and never has a moderator had a problem with it. Obviously I wouldn't post a link to a competing product in a sponsor's circle, manufacturer's circle or in a Trading Post ad.

There is nothing in the Posting Guidelines about this, only "Please, don't copy large amounts of text from other websites. Just post a link! ".

Whether you realize it or not, the majority of AudioCircle members post on other forum sites. Not allowing the links only makes them spend needless time searching other forums for the information being discussed and takes away from the time they have to come back and post meaningful and contributing content here.

Steve

Rclark · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 01:32 am »

Rodge had also mentioned the preamp section improves greatly on battery power, making it a dream machine indeed.

medium jim · « **Reply #23 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 02:12 am »

Rodge:

I welcome your posts and insights, I also like Rclark's approach where he noted he is dissecting the user manual to gain knowledge of what it will do. With that, maybe a link to said manual us in order.

Jim

Rclark · « **Reply #24 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 02:17 am »

Oh the link is right there in that post, but here:

http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/datasheets/dspeaker/AntiMode20DualCoreEng.pdf

quite the eye opener.

rodge827 · « **Reply #25 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 02:30 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 23 Oct 2012, 01:32 am

Rodge had also mentioned the preamp section improves greatly on battery power, making it a dream machine indeed.

Yes this is true!

The sound was fuller and less "hard" with the battery power supply.

I did a demo for Tim Kroll of Shelby + Kroll Speakers. The gentleman I was doing the demo for was only interested in the monitors. So with the subs off and the Dual Core on "bypass" mode we listened to his first track. I realized half way through that I forgot to put the Dual Core on the BPS. After the song was over we played it again with the BPS in use, and he immediately turned to me and said "now that has more of a SET quality to it!" After he was satisfied with the monitor only demo we turned on the subs and listened to them uncalibrated. He was being nice by saying that the bass was rich and full. I took the Dual Core off "bypass" and he nearly fell out of the chair. He couldn't believe the bass notes that were in his demo tracks. He said it was like listening to his music all over again.

I'm using the Dual Core as a Preamp, Dac, and room correction device. My transport, 47 Labs Flatfish, is hooked up via the Toslink SPDIF input. By using the Battery PS the noise floor of the whole unit is lowered significantly. The Dac chip (dunno what it is so please don't ask) is a very,very good musical and detailed performer. You will get very good dynamics, micro and macro details, and proper decay of all instruments. Of course YMMV due to cables, amp, transport used, and speaker type.

Every system is different and some may use a line conditioner better than mine and not need to go to a different power supply.
The Battery PS I use can be seen in my Gallery pics.
There has also been talk to a positive improvement by using a higher quality PS such as Core Audio, Paul Hynes, etc...

DaveC113 · « **Reply #26 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 03:47 am »

I stopped by the Legacy room at RMAF Saturday evening and got to see the setup procedure and demo the speakers with and without correction. I am impressed and plan on using one as a DAC with USB input and RCA out to my preamp. A lot has already been said so I'll just point out some things I learned....

- It's best to output the results of freq sweeps to your computer, you can compare before/after, add smoothing and have a much larger screen to work with. I'd say having a laptop beside it while doing setup or adjustments is a must.

- Bass is adjusted in mono up to 199 Hz. It might be worthwhile to try manual adjustments at 200+ Hz as well as auto correction from 200 to 500 Hz and see what's best. When we set up the unit at RMAF we just went up to 199 Hz because it takes a lot longer to run the stereo setup procedure, so even further improvements could be made than what I heard.

- The normal setting is normally preferred for how much correction the unit will add. This unit is a definitely not a substitute for proper setup and room treatment, although it is possible to use less room treatment than you might otherwise, and reduce the effects of a poor room. If you have a huge bass null it's not going to be able to level a 12 dB dip...

The unit can do a freq response test up to 20k Hz and you can use this feature to see what changes in room treatments and placements is making, get it as close as you can then use the correction. Add/remove room treatments then run correction and save the correction file so you can directly compare room treatments with correction already done for both scenarios. I think it can store 3 correction files, but don't quote me on that.... anyway, it is powerful tool beyond just the auto correction feature... you could spend A LOT of time messing with stuff and running freq response tests. You could use it to measure and improve a DIY speaker project...

wisnon · « **Reply #27 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 06:01 am »

U can store up to FOUR profiles.

Guidof from the forum link I posted has been tinkering a lot. I will invite him here to share results.

I also got a couple replies from Dspeaker themselves and will eventually share them here.

Rodge...can you elaborate on which linear power supplies to use, ie links to where they can be purchased.

The TYPICAL calibration corrects up to 150hz. In adavanced mode U can go up to 500hz.

rodge827 · « **Reply #28 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 11:59 am »

Here are a few outboard power supply makers:

https://coreaudiotechnology.com/products/power-supplies

http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/page7.html

http://www.mojo-audio.com/power-supplies/

http://redwineaudio.com/components/black_lightning

There are some that I'm missing, feel free to add to the list.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm »

On the less expensive side, MF V-DAC users seem to like the Pyramid PSU

rodge827 · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 23 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm

On the less expensive side, MF V-DAC users seem to like the Pyramid PSU

Hi roscoeiii,

I did a search and went to here http://radioproshop.com/pyramid-ps/powersupply.htm.
There are a lot of Pyramid PSU's...could you narrow it down a little for us?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 12:54 pm »

Don't really know much more. Just recall seeing that they were around $20-30.

rodge827 · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 01:25 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 23 Oct 2012, 03:47 am

I stopped by the Legacy room at RMAF Saturday evening and got to see the setup procedure and demo the speakers with and without correction. I am impressed and plan on using one as a DAC with USB input and RCA out to my preamp. A lot has already been said so I'll just point out some things I learned....

- It's best to output the results of freq sweeps to your computer, you can compare before/after, add smoothing and have a much larger screen to work with. I'd say having a laptop beside it while doing setup or adjustments is a must.

- Bass is adjusted in mono up to 199 Hz. It might be worthwhile to try manual adjustments at 200+ Hz as well as auto correction from 200 to 500 Hz and see what's best. When we set up the unit at RMAF we just went up to 199 Hz because it takes a lot longer to run the stereo setup procedure, so even further improvements could be made than what I heard.

- The normal setting is normally preferred for how much correction the unit will add. This unit is a definitely not a substitute for proper setup and room treatment, although it is possible to use less room treatment than you might otherwise, and reduce the effects of a poor room. If you have a huge bass null it's not going to be able to level a 12 dB dip...

The unit can do a freq response test up to 20k Hz and you can use this feature to see what changes in room treatments and placements is making, get it as close as you can then use the correction. Add/remove room treatments then run correction and save the correction file so you can directly compare room treatments with correction already done for both scenarios. I think it can store 3 correction files, but don't quote me on that.... anyway, it is powerful tool beyond just the auto correction feature... you could spend A LOT of time messing with stuff and running freq response tests. You could use it to measure and improve a DIY speaker project...

Hi Dave just to clarify a few things and add to your observations.

1) "- It's best to output the results of freq sweeps to your computer, you can compare before/after, add smoothing and have a much larger screen to work with. I'd say having a laptop beside it while doing setup or adjustments is a must. "

Yes it is good to have a computer screen to observe and save the results. From those results you can save the calibration to a Profile and adjust to your hearts delight with the 16 band EQ, House Curve (bass) and House Tilt (treble) features.

2)"- Bass is adjusted in mono up to 199 Hz. It might be worthwhile to try manual adjustments at 200+ Hz as well as auto correction from 200 to 500 Hz and see what's best. When we set up the unit at RMAF we just went up to 199 Hz because it takes a lot longer to run the stereo setup procedure, so even further improvements could be made than what I heard."

Yes this is correct also. When you run calibrations in the stereo mode and move up in frequency, they take about 10 mins.

3)"- The normal setting is normally preferred for how much correction the unit will add. This unit is a definitely not a substitute for proper setup and room treatment, although it is possible to use less room treatment than you might otherwise, and reduce the effects of a poor room. If you have a huge bass null it's not going to be able to level a 12 dB dip..."

OK a little clarification here. The Normal setting is used in the Typical set up and can be chosen in the Advanced set up menu. What the Normal mode does is to boost the bass frequency, to what Dspeaker has determined to be the kind of bass sound that we are now accustomed to. In the Advanced Mode there are three choices for compensation Off, Normal, and Max. With the Off setting there is no compensation applied to boost the bass dips. This is a good setting to customize how the user prefers his bass via the House Curve Tool or the 16 band Parametric EQ. The Normal setting adds partial compensation as explained above and you can still tailor the sound to your liking using the House Curve, House Tilt, and EQ. The Max setting gives you full compensation by adding a full +2db gain to the boosting filters. This is all explained in the Owners Manual in section 6. Advanced Calibration. The Dual Core also has an Infrasonic Filter that is used to limit the the true subsonic bass on recordings. The cut off levels are 20hz, 15hz, and 10hz. When the bass is boosted so is the subsonic bass, use of this filter is imperative to good driver health.

4) "The unit can do a freq response test up to 20k Hz and you can use this feature to see what changes in room treatments and placements is making, get it as close as you can then use the correction. Add/remove room treatments then run correction and save the correction file so you can directly compare room treatments with correction already done for both scenarios. I think it can store 3 correction files, but don't quote me on that.... anyway, it is powerful tool beyond just the auto correction feature... you could spend A LOT of time messing with stuff and running freq response tests. You could use it to measure and improve a DIY speaker project"

Yes you can do a full spectrum room measurement. How cool is that! I took all of my ugly oversized bass treatment out of the room. For you multiple sub users this is a great tool to use for that final stage of adjustment. Heck it costs about the same as a good sub. As mentioned by Wisnon there are 4 profiles , A B C D, on the remote you can play with to your hearts delight. Yes you can spend a lot of time mucking around with all of the different features or just use a Typical Calibration and be waaay better off than 10 mins earlier!

wisnon · « **Reply #33 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 05:44 pm »

Some responses from Finland:

I have 4 questions:
1) Will you do a future development to allow firmware updates on the MacOS?
It should not be a very big job, so Mac updater is on the to-do list. But it is not a priority.

2) When is a likely date to expect a firmware update for USB asynchronous 24/192 input? (I understand that you cant give a guaranteed date yet, I am just asking for a rough estimate)
3) Will Toslink input ever get to 24/192 or is it restricted to 24/96?
24bit/192kHz is not possible for USB with the hardware. We'll see if we can bring 24/96k at the same time with the other USB enhancements. We have practically ruled out 192k with the current hardware because of various hardware-related things. Our resources are better spent in other areas of development.

4) Is the DSPeaker DSD capable and if so, can this be a future firmware update, or would it need new hardware as well?
Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core is not capable of DSD, but DSD warrants study for the future.

Question:
> There is no setting for 2.1, ie 2 main speakers and a single stereo
> subwoofer on The Dual Core. Does the 2.0 setting work equally well for
> room correction for this configuration?

Yes, the 2.0 setting basically covers all 2-channel full-range systems, regardless of where the signal is being reproduced. For instance, any 2.1 or 2.2 system is generally a 2-channel full-range system. The subwoofers are just a frequency range specified drivers to handle the lowest frequencies, just like the tweeter and midwoofers are in any 2-way speaker. Which drivers reproduce which frequencies is quite indifferent for the AM2DC since it "sees" the total outcome when calibrating.

>Does it matter that I use analog (XLR or RCA)
> input and RCA output to my integrated amp which has a pre-out to the SW?

No, that is a good way to connect AM2DC.

Any plans to allow Toslink and USB input to accept 24/192? I have a lot
of hirez albums and can make more from my SACDs.

> It is difficult to say yet about 24/192 as we are still planning the
> 24/96. However, the analog input already is 192kHz capable and USB should be able
> to feed the data in 24/48 format. With 6.144MHz reclocking, 24/48 is
> essentially as good as 24/192 as there is no jitter (which is more
> relevant than the ultrasonics).
>

wisnon · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 05:45 pm »

Quote from: rodge827 on 23 Oct 2012, 11:59 am

Here are a few outboard power supply makers:

https://coreaudiotechnology.com/products/power-supplies

http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/page7.html

http://www.mojo-audio.com/power-supplies/

http://redwineaudio.com/components/black_lightning

There are some that I'm missing, feel free to add to the list.

Thanx! What amp rating for the Dspeaker?

Rclark · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 05:52 pm »

I wonder if anyone knows about the reclocking technology in this device, seems pretty nice.

glynnw · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 06:15 pm »

Having owned mine for a little over 2 months, I can testify to it's being a good product. Prior to this, I used 2 of their 8033 mono sub units on my subs, so I pretty much knew it would be good. The DAC is quite good, too. For many budget minded audiophiles this can be the core of an excellent system. My only caveat is amplifier matching - the 1.65 V output may not drive some amp/speaker combos to a really loud (think Iggy Pop's "Lust For Life") level. This is the case with my Bottlehead Paramount 300B amps, so I am just using it on the 2 subs. But even there it is an improvment over the 2 8033 units. While I cannot say the bass is better than with the 8033s, the Dual-Core has a bypass, a mute, volume - all done by remote, making it really simple to adjust and compare the unit to non-DSP sifgnal. It is night and day - bass instruments and drums are now there in the stage, not everywhere. I am really hoping they figure out a way to retrofit a higher output voltage, because I want to use it full range and play with the equalizer on my main speakers.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 06:18 pm »

The lower output is actually appealing in my case, since I have a bit too much gain in my system...

Rclark · « **Reply #38 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 07:22 pm »

Quote from: glynnw on 23 Oct 2012, 06:15 pm

Having owned mine for a little over 2 months, I can testify to it's being a good product. Prior to this, I used 2 of their 8033 mono sub units on my subs, so I pretty much knew it would be good. The DAC is quite good, too.......It is night and day - bass instruments and drums are now there in the stage, not everywhere.

Judging by your custom open baffle speakers, I'd say you've given pretty high praise here to the unit.

rodge827 · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 05:05 pm »

Here are a few pics of my room measurements taken from the Dual Core screen:

Red line is before calibration, black line is after calibration up to 200hz.

Full spectrum room measurement with calibration set to 200hz.

Full spectrum room measurement.

Room measurement to 500hz. The most that the screen will show is up to 200hz. Hopefully there will be a firmware update to take it to 500hz.