[charmerci]

I know for a long time, Neil was anti-digital. He used to be a big vinyl guy. So this has to be hi-rez, better than CD quality.

[OzarkTom]

Neil Young makes a recent visit to Meridian.

http://www.whathifi.com/news/exclusive-neil-young-visits-meridian-%E2%80%93-pono-hi-res-music-link-up-imminent

[underdog64]

It's always six months away I've received two Facebook messages from the Pono team saying they're still working on but can't release anymore details-gee what a surprise! Universal meanwhile is test marketing Blu-Ray audio only discs supposedly that will priced around $20.If they (Universal) was smart they'ed release a bunch more titles great some press on it and steal Neil's thunder.Music fans by in large still want a physical disc but one that sounds better,has the titles/artists they want on it,and is priced reasonably...

[rajacat]

 Pono (where did they get that name?, almost can be misheard as porno ) won't make much of an impact on the mass market unless albums are priced around $10. At $20 per album the kids  will just continue to download MP3's and copy cd's or buy used cd's off of Amazon especially in the present economy. If they want better and have a bit connoisseur tastes they'll buy vinyl for much the same price.

[raysracing]

It has to be affordable. I go on HD tracks often and then direct myself back out just as fast. I am on a budget at all times and I cannot justify the prices HD tracks charges.  To me these high res files are a luxury, not a necessity, as much as I love the sound of a better recording (or transfer).

Depending on the evening I sometimes can listen to my MP3's, Spotify (prefer MOG, but...), Pandora and some nights I have to listen to something that sounds great on vinyl or CD. But to know I would need to shell out cash to re-buy my whole collection is not happening unless I have a huge windfall.

Ray

[SteveFord]

For twenty bucks I'll take the 180gm vinyl, please.
Hopefully, the Pono deal will come in at a realistic price.

[OzarkTom]

I guess you AC'ers have never heard a master tape before. The master tape blows away any CD or vinyl recording. That is what Neil Young is shooting for with Pono. You will hear the master tape.

[SteveFord]

I will keep my fingers crossed.
He would certainly know what things are supposed to sound like.

[TF1216]

The Kickstarter campaign has started:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music?ref=recently_launched

[Vinnie R.]

I know this is going to be a poor analogy, but if Pono brings awareness of higher quality to the masses like Beats by Dre introduced
the idea that stock iPod earbuds are not enough (even though Beats are nowhere close to audiophile quality IMO), then we will hopefully see
a growth of high res, and more importantly, artists/ recording engineers will see that people do want better quality mastering instead of "mastering for MP3."  Imagine if they start to do away with the loudness wars! 

The Kickstarter video was kinda long, but there were a lot of musicians featured and I see a good vibe starting to happen already.

[Chromisdesigns]

I guess you AC'ers have never heard a master tape before. The master tape blows away any CD or vinyl recording. That is what Neil Young is shooting for with Pono. You will hear the master tape.

From the Kickstarter FAQ for Pono:


PonoMusic a new audio format? What about PonoMusic quality?


No. We want to be very clear that PonoMusic is not a new audio file format or standard. It is an end-to-end ecosystem for music lovers to get access to and enjoy their favorite music in the highest resolution possible for that song or album. The music in the PonoMusic.com Store is sold and downloaded in industry standard audio file formats.

The PonoMusic.com Store uses FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) audio format as its standard, for compatibility, although the PonoPlayer can play most popular high-resolution music formats from other sources. PonoMusic has a quality spectrum, ranging from really good to really great, depending on the quality of the available master recordings:

• CD lossless quality recordings: 1411 kbps (44.1 kHz/16 bit) FLAC files
• High-resolution recordings: 2304 kbps (48 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files
• Higher-resolution recordings: 4608 kbps (96 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files
• Ultra-high resolution recordings: 9216 kbps (192 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files

[mcgsxr]

I guess I am confused.

If Pono is not a new format, and they sell in the already available 24/XX of your choice, then what is it?

[OzarkTom]

From the Kickstarter FAQ for Pono:


PonoMusic a new audio format? What about PonoMusic quality?


No. We want to be very clear that PonoMusic is not a new audio file format or standard. It is an end-to-end ecosystem for music lovers to get access to and enjoy their favorite music in the highest resolution possible for that song or album. The music in the PonoMusic.com Store is sold and downloaded in industry standard audio file formats.

The PonoMusic.com Store uses FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) audio format as its standard, for compatibility, although the PonoPlayer can play most popular high-resolution music formats from other sources. PonoMusic has a quality spectrum, ranging from really good to really great, depending on the quality of the available master recordings:

• CD lossless quality recordings: 1411 kbps (44.1 kHz/16 bit) FLAC files
• High-resolution recordings: 2304 kbps (48 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files
• Higher-resolution recordings: 4608 kbps (96 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files
• Ultra-high resolution recordings: 9216 kbps (192 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files

Yep, it was just another hype in the audio world. No way Pono is master tapes.

But looks like they have been successful today, almost half way to their 800k goal on their first day.

[Chromisdesigns]

I guess I am confused.

If Pono is not a new format, and they sell in the already available 24/XX of your choice, then what is it?

My take is they want to be the iTunes of hi-res.  Seems like a tough sell given how many different on-line music sources already exist.  What I get from reading their promo stuff, and other previous coverage, is they are going to **TRY** to deliver what they call an end-to-end hi-res experience.  Looks like they will try to provide the "best" version of whatever content they carry.  Like I said, seems like a tough business model.

My own question would be, assuming Neil and the rest **can** get access to master tapes, is -- WHICH masters?  My understanding of how mastering works is that a "master" (probably NOT tape, anymore) is mixed for a specific purpose.  Do they mean the original recording session masters?  If so, they probably, almost certainly, would have to be re-mastered anyway.  Who's going to do that? Etc.

[jarcher]

I've got not problem with another source of hi-rez albums for sale & I'm glad they are going for FLAC vs some proprietary format, which would be a non-starter for me.  Hopefully they will help to drive the cost down for these, with the high current cost being one of the reasons I don't buy them.  Maybe if they are successful they would also spur Apple to offer higher quality downloads on iTunes. 

As for actual sound quality improvement : this does go back to the master does't it?  If they are just going to offer hi-rez file formats (at presumably greater cost) without using a higher quality master (or remaster), then there isn't much of a point, is there? 

[orthobiz]

Lefsetz.com today:


The Problem
Pono

Selling files in a streaming world is like asking me to give up my Tesla for a bicycle. A bigger bicycle that doesn’t exist that you want me to pay for on spec.

Can everybody stop begging? Crowdfunding is so two years ago. Know anybody with a Pebble watch? What a disappointment. Oh, they keep on improving the product, but the early adopters, the ones who pledged on Kickstarter, they got screwed, and Samsung’s product is superior, and also recently upgraded, so if you want me to lay my money down so you can get the support no VC will give you, I’ll pass.

There are no unsigned bands who got screwed by the major label system. That was the fallacy that was supposed to be eradicated by the Internet. You know, a plethora of badasses who the major labels just couldn’t understand were gonna rise like a phoenix and revolutionize not only the business, but our ears. But it turns out Lorde was signed before adolescence and Jason Flom flew to New Zealand for American rights and if you don’t think the majors are scouring the world for anything good, and signing it up if it has commercial potential, you don’t have an Internet connection and believe everybody deserves a chance.

So here we’ve got alta-kacher Neil Young wanting us to believe he’s a tech king. I’m not sure WME and CAA can figure out tech investment, but artist Young has got it mainlined. Why does everybody think they can do everything? What next, is Neil Young gonna join the NBA? Are sixty year olds gonna dominate at Wimbledon? Face it, you’re lucky if you can be world-class at one thing.

And now I’ve got a single device that lets me play music, surf the web, talk, text, stream music and files…and Neil says I’ve got it all wrong, I’ve got to go back ten years and get a single player, that looks chunky in the pics, so I can get higher quality audio. Why don’t you just lobby for a faster Internet connection, so I can get hi-res streams? Isn’t Google Fiber gonna wipe you out? Do you really want me to go back in time fifteen years when MP3s were cool? What next, a return to BlackBerry, because it had a keyboard and it was such a good e-mail device?

But you can’t even show me a finished product. And even though you’re a rich rock star (aren’t they all?) you can’t pay for it, I have to. And that means very few people will, and I’ll end up with a paperweight.

No thanks.

But every media outlet in the world is covering this story, as if it has meaning. But it doesn’t.

Oh, they’ll review Neil Young’s new record too, but no one will buy that either. Oh, a few might stream it, but then move on, because he hasn’t made memorable music since “Greendale,” and that’s cutting him a break.

Do I want high quality music on the run?

Of course!

But portable turntables never broke through.

And neither will Pono.

-Bob Lefsetz

[MaxCast]

I think the biggest problem is the master tapes.  It seems like there are many hi-bit remasters but no one can be certain what it was a remaster of.  From what I read getting to the master tapes is harder than putting a man on Pluto.  If the master tapes can be had it has a chance.  Then there is the question to remaster or not while you got them.  I say rip everything in the highest bit rate possible then monkey with them.  What are they saving the tapes for anyway??

[JohnR]

I'm still not sure I get it. I didn't watch the video. But... do you have to have a PonoPlayer (what an unfortunate name) to buy/download from the Pono Store? Once you've downloaded, are the files somehow limited to playback on the PonoPlayer?

[Scott F.]

I'm still not sure I get it. I didn't watch the video. But... do you have to have a PonoPlayer (what an unfortunate name) to buy/download from the Pono Store? Once you've downloaded, are the files somehow limited to playback on the PonoPlayer?

Not at all. If you go to the pono website http://www.ponomusic.com/#faq , they answer a lot of questions. The files are FLAC. They are portable and can play on any device that does FLAC at 24/192 (at least as I read it). Albums will be between $15 and $25USD, pretty much in line with HD tracks. The pono player is simply a HiRez, portable player that accepts SD cards that hold the FLAC files. It has a 64G internal hard drive in conjunction with the 64G SD card.

The word 'pono' is Hawaiian and means 'righteousness'.

[Russtafarian]

I think Young and company are doing the right thing by marketing Pono as a music + player system to music fans.  With hi-rez compatibility limited/inconsistent on phones and ipods, they needed to launch their own DAP to showcase their hi-rez music files.  If they can successfully leverage artist credibility/marketing to music fans, Pono can bring better sound to more people.  Good for them.

For audiophiles, Pono becomes another option.  The player becomes another option in the growing hi-rez DAP market.  The music store becomes a direct competitor to HDTracks and SuperHiRez.  Competition is good!

Go Pono!

Russ