[Richard U]

TheChairGuy,

Still having problems. Sent you a PM. Thanks.

Richard

[ABEX]

Just a note and not to get off track from what is beiing mentioned in the thread concerning Digi Amps:

Sources make a difference. Like most good Passive Controllers you will get out what you put into the Panny45. I found that an older Phillips CD-80 to be better for Redbook Playback then the Panny F65 DVDP which has a better sampling rate.

The Reason?

I read recently that JA of S-Phile stated that the Clocking for http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||mp3|AA1VDw">MP3's creates distortion which makes these players not as good for Redbook playback(I can find the comment if you wish). It made sense to me.

The workaround?

You can buy a player that has Dual Laser's. The Philips Player 963(?) comes with Dual Lasers from what I read and there are a few other lower priced players that do. If you are in the market for a new player it is a good thing to consider and know about.  


The point I am trying to make is that these Digi Players are like passives and you will get the best out of them by using the best CDP's that you can use and the higher sampling rates will not always be advantageous to getting good audio playback.

Power Cord Synergy?
The PC is another thing which makes these things perform better which Dr.D pointed out to me. What is going on there?

I know the stock cords are like what you'd find with electric shavers so anything which is thicker or higher gauge will be an improvement,but what about higher priced cables.

Has anyone tested exotic cables and what did they find in a test of maybe 5 different ones?
A question I might ask in a seperate thread.


Just thinking!

[rha61]

hi


Panny 45 :
i've tried a DIY heavy gauge OFC multi-strand cord with no result , a DIY twisted multistrand one : there was an improvement but the treble was a little dirty
The good one has been a cord built with 2 pieces of CAT5e FTP twisted with the shield connected only to the ground :
cheap and effiscient !

for the speakers , my QED and Maxitrans were too bright
AWG24 magnet wire (multistrand in parallel running free ) cables (insulation : enamel ) work for my system

rha

[TheChairGuy]

I finally figured out how to configure the RX-ES1SL to accept a digital signal from Sony CDP/Transport.

My Sony S7700 was modified by Steve Nugent/Empirical Audio, but nothing was done to the coax outs on this unit.  It has a 192/24 upsampler from MSB inside and outputs to a different (RJ-45 Ethernet) terminations...this is the only digital out Steve worked on.

So, my transport had substantial mods to the power supply and other areas , including fatty Jensen caps, but it (my particular machine) does not take advantage of the full out mods that were paid for as it was done so with the intention to use the (also modded) MSB Link III and Power Base then on into amplification.

I used a LAT DI-20II Digital cable...it has bested a Kimber D60, Hamonic Tech Truth Copper and Platinums, Canare and Radio Shacks.  I just plain ole' like it.

When I ran the transport to the DAC and on into the JVC, my preferred cables were 2 LAT International IC200's.  So, at least in the areas we can control, we pretty much have a fair fight here (similar wire maker & geometry, etc).

This is the first time I have used, or heard, digital direct into a digital receiver.  I had tried a few weeks ago, but I couldn't get it to output.  The digital/analog 'switch' is found on the remote, under the door, in case anyone else in intersted in replicating the procedure.

It is a really good way to play this thing.  It has less overly processed sound going on.  The Brandenburg Concerto's were very enjoyable to listen to.  I can't put my finger on the reasons why I like it, except the term 'not overprocessed' comes to my mind but you could do a lot worse than mating one of these $179 JVC's with a $149 Pioneer (or other relatively jitter free player out there) and run it into simple 2 way speakers (I use a Vandy 1c).

I am not sure of the sound quality would suffer if you had a more extravagant system, more channels of amplification, multi-way speakers with higher order crossovers; but in this setting it is really pleasant to listen to. Damn, keep-it-on-all-day kinda' pleasant  

Tho a little more overprocessed sound, the dynamics and 'largeness' of the recording are more accurately portayed thru the DAC and analog inputs (as well it freakin' should as the DAC/PowerBase and mods were over $2000).  It is, for me, more enjoyable this way...but come on, think about, I am now running $4200 worth of front end into a $179 receiver...with excellent results.

This little JVC sure does please, mine with zero internal mods.  I have 2 ZSleeves (teehee,fortunately they work, but $300 each - ouch!) on the IC's, a HighWire PowerWrap on the JVC powercord, MapleShade silver grease on rca's, an ERS sheet placed on top of the machine, 4 LAT squishy 'pud' feet underneath and it's plugged into a BPT-2 with upgrades.

The damn thing really does please and it is so much better than we have a right to expect for $179 (not perfect, but pleasant), it's kinda' funny.

[ABEX]

CD Direct sucks with a regualr CDP through a conventional amp! Atleast the setup I have as it makes everything sound sterile and hard.

[Ears]

ChairGuy, so your saying your listening to a 192hz signal, but through the JVC's analog input....correct?

[TheChairGuy]

ChairGuy, so your saying your listening to a 192hz signal, but through the JVC's analog input....correct?

Ears,

I am listening to the 44.1 signal from the JVC, transmitted into the JVC via digital (coax) connection.   I'm not sure what the JVC is doing with it as there is no mention of the digital-to-audio conversion onboard the JVC.

My Sony transmits 192K only thru a RJ45 Ethernet connection into my DAC.  No upsampling is done in my DAC (its already done in the Sony), so the only thing going on in my DAC is digital-to-audio conversion....then transmitted to the JVC into analog inputs via IC's.

It's not just any DAC/Transport tandem either, Steve/audioengr/Empirical says it's the best front combo he has modded yet.  'Bone-crushing' bass were his words.

Whatever is going on inside the JVC, the $2 conversion solution in the JVC ain't bad.  With a smallish listening room, and a simple set-up, it'll make damn good music on the cheap.

If you have a more complex system arrangement, extraordinarily good listeing environment, or born with super hearing...you might pick up on some more deficiencies than I did....but you might not either. Who really knows -I can only report that it is pleasant listening this way.

Overall, it falls short of the $2000 conversion provided by my MSB Gold Link III/Power Base...particularly in the area of dynamics.  Honestly, a good bit of this positive difference might be attributableto the Power Base, and all the extra juice it supplies, rather than the $1700 (or so) DAC.

I am just speculating, and rather amazed still, at it all.

ABEX, I wouldn't call the sound sterile; just thinner and less powerful (yet, less complicated) than what I am used to, but not alltogether objectionable.  I am finding that the little JVC is sensitive to IC swapping - as better equipment tends to be.  I have found the JVC a might (subjective, of course)analytical with all silver designs Alpha Core TQ-2 and TekLine 500s and it sounded /responded best with my LAT International IC2000 (silver/copper amalgam).  It just added that touch of 'roundness' that is pleasing to my ears.

Am I the only one that is finding it weird to call a $179 receiver better equipment?  Damn new audio days we livin' in....

[Rob Babcock]

Does the JVC RX-ES1SL accept a 24/96 signal thru the digital inputs?  Does is have 24 bit DACs?

What I'm really dreaming of is a high powered digital receiver that's full featured and large.  It seems like all the makers of digital units are trying to see how small they can make them.  This leaves no room for inputs!  I want banana plugs, 3 component video inputs & 7 digital inputs.  I wouldn't complain about DVI or HDMI input either.  

I don't know if it sounds good, but Sony's new digital uber-receiver is what I'm talking about.  It's got something like a dozen digital inputs, including a digital input for SACD, and can crank out 200 watts X 7!  

If Denon would come up with basically a '3805D or '4805D (the D for digital amp- ideally new Tripath chips with a true, direct-digital input), I might just get off the merry-go-round permanently.  Especially if the Denon Link gets approval to pass DSD, too.

[TheChairGuy]

Does the JVC RX-ES1SL accept a 24/96 signal thru the digital inputs?  Does is have 24 bit DACs?

What I'm really dreaming of is a high powered digital receiver that's full featured and large.  It seems like all the makers of digital units are trying to see how small they can make them.  This leaves no room for inputs!  I want banana plugs, 3 component video inputs & 7 digital inputs.  I wouldn't complain about DVI or HDMI input either.  

I don't know if it sounds good, but Sony's new digital ub ...

Rob,

Don't know what type of upsampled signal the JVC will take, nor it's internal DAC...the JVC guys would be great poker players.  Info is scarce anywhere in the manual or online.

This is a slim line receiver, so rca jack space are limited to no more than what's on back of the Pioneer DVD's (about the same size they both are)...the fat ass Sony might be more your ticket  

btw, the top o' the line Sony (I think the one you mention here is the $4500 list model) is what Mark Hampton of ZCable uses as his reference, with his power cord, IC's, speaker cable and ZSleeves.  I think he runs a stock Denon 5900 right into it via digital coax.  He mentioned this to me in a talk I had with him a couple months ago...it sure got me thinking digi-amp afterwards.  Mark makes some very well thought of products and seesm to know a thing or two about quality sound (albeit, not cheaply, however).

Hey, my JVC barge is the exact same width as all my components - 17".  There  may be a reason on the JVC for the non-parallel box design; it seems the non-parallel sides (that, to you, make it look like a barge) are well adorned with ventilation holes.  It may be that the Japanese have found better ventilation with 4 sides exposed, than 3...this JVC, particularly, gets very hot around the power supply area.

The other reason I can think of for the non-parallel sides is similar....that the manufactures are unsure how these components are mounted, and using non-parallel surfaces always leaves ventilation area even if they are butt up against other components on 3 sides, already. 2 parallel surfaces butt up again one another plugs up breathing room, a parallel and non-parallel surface leaves room to breathe.

Than again, it could just be the Japanese idea of a new, hi-tech look.  Like the Toyota Prius  

[Ears]

Rob, I can't get the RX-10 to accept any upsampled signal through its digital input, much like the hybrid HK 2005.
I do beleive the dpr2005 accepted a 96hz upsampled signal but not 192hz, and the JVC's except neither.

I am also interested in the top Sony 9000es receiver, but have been unable to locate one single reveiw, whether private or professional.
I am also interested in the 170 x 7 5000es.

I have seen the strda9000es for as little as 2670.00 + shipping, whith a 10 day return, but whithout anything to go on, for how good it is,I have to wonder what the deal is.

ChairGuy, no super hearing here, and I realize that the Sony 7000 and 7700 make pretty decent transports, even when stock.
I was just making sure that I was not missing something, as far as getting the JVC to accept upsampled signals through the digital in.

[Dmason]

I am using the above mentioned Sony for a transport, very basic level Value mods, like better output op amp, caps, wiring, insulation, and isolation. It is about as good as it gets without getting into hair-splitting. It has high mileage and has never  even burped, tracks like a freight train, great everything.

One thing I can say is that with the non upsampled, non filtered, non anything signal of the Nixon DACkit into the JVC, the combination is truly stunning. For standard Redbook, I would not change a thing. This is a fantastic example of implementation being The Key Element in achieving great sound. I never would have dreamed I could do it so simply and satisfyingly with so little expense. I have been tinkering with audio stuff since high school, and I like this current combo's sonic almost better than anything I have put together, and I have spent large cash on audio systems, in the past---I have been forced to completely reassess my thinking on audio given the times,--- and I do not think major outlays are required for truly high end sonics, rather careful selection and attention to: synergy-synergy-synergy.

For the $4500 pricetag of the Sony, I could put something together that would include FireWire, DSP acoustic control, multichannel, the works, with what is out there these days just in pro audio alone, and the component quality would truly blow Sony "my-fi" outta the water. I would have enough left over to spend a week downloading a ton of new tunes, and never have to worry about things like jitter, acoustic interaction, anymore....Something to think about. Meanwhile, I am going with my $300 "barge."   For that kind of dough, I can handle the assymetrical sides and all. 'Cept the blue light, but hey: they even gave me the option. If I get sick of the "cheesy" silver, I will just drink a couple of beers while I shoot a couple of coats of Crilon onto it, making it a bona fide 17" wide, black component.

Oh yeah, one more thing: I just sold my Carver Pro ZR1000.

[TheChairGuy]

Guys, I didn't find the Sony 7700 to be very much more than average in stock form.  My old Rotel RCD965BX provided better and more pleasing transport to my DAC before the Sony, and it's 192 upsampled outputted signal, came around to handle those duties.

The stock Rotel outputting 44.1 into my MSB which then upsampled signal to 96 or 132K (earliest incarnation of my MSB Link set-up)was BETTER than my Sony with 192K output into the MSB strictly for D/A conversion.  In other words, without a ultra-stable transport, upsampling makes things sound worse, not better.  It was only until Steve/audioengr blew some pixie dust ( ) into the Sony was it more enjoyable than the old Rotel/MSB arrangement.

With the very good results we are getting with the lowly JVC, it seems attention and money paid to a better transport and coax digital outs would be money better spent than improving the JVC - dollar for dollar if you had a strict budget to adhere to.

Dmason, asymetrical, not non-parallel, that was the goddarn word I was searching for in my brain at 1AM this morning  

[Dmason]

Chairguy, actually, non-parallel is the correct term; the sides are symmetrical. Your brain was working just fine. Two "m's" tho' -Queen's English here, remember, this is the League of Crafty Audiophools.  

I agree about the transport issues. Q: Someone weigh in about some good transports. Like CD-ROMs with buffers and caches. Let's see about end-running the need to invest in off the shelf audio components here. We need alternatives. Does it follow that transports are not as big an issue with NON-oversampling DAC's? How does that work? Has anyone other than the few I know heard the Nixon/47 Labs approach to DAC, with digital amps? I know Albert von Scheikert likes the combo. Especially when voicing speakers.

[srclose]

I just completed a quiet PC based on the ASUS K8V SE motherboard, which has a SPDIF out that I am using as a transport.  This replaced a Meitner CD-D transport, which replaced an Audio Refinement CD player, which replaced a CAL ICON.  I am using the dAck! non-oversampling DAC, which I understand is very sensitive to jitter and requires a very stable transport.  Using the Green Hornet digital cable w/inline Bybee, the ASUS is a hands down winner over the Meitner CD-D.  Software is Exact Audio Copy and Foobar2k.  I hope to compare the ASUS to other transports in the future.  This seems like a very cost effective approach.

[Dmason]

Okay, this is good. Plus, you get a brand new computer as a "byproduct" of your efforts. --and better than the audiophool-approved Meitner.   Hmmm, maybe there is something to this; and I bet there will be money in your pocket when the smoke clears, no?

Does ASUS or their competition make any plug-and-pray drives like the fantastic $25 NEC Multispin with direct SPDIF? In silver?

[srclose]

I haven't looked into a CDROM w/direct SPDIF out, but the K8V seems to have a very clean output.  If this stands up well to other dedicated transports, it's got to be great deal.

[ooheadsoo]

I read somewhere that the empirical audio guys thought that the digital out of the emu1212m to be among the best they have heard.  They offer mods for it on their website.  Hey, pay attention to their tone of voice  

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Does the JVC RX-ES1SL accept a 24/96 signal thru the digital inputs?  Does is have 24 bit DACs?

What I'm really dreaming of is a high powered digital receiver that's full featured and large.  It seems like all the makers of digital units are trying to see how small they can make them.  This leaves no room for inputs!  I want banana plugs, 3 component video inputs & 7 digital inputs.  I wouldn't complain about DVI or HDMI input either.  

I don't know if it sounds good, but Sony's new digital ub ...

I share the same dream !!!!!!!!!!
This audiophile thingy is driving me nuts. I need good transport, DAC, preamp, power amp, ICs, power cables, speaker cables, rack, isolation, power conditioner etc  and in my experience all these things contribute to the sound.
So, do I have time to do my job, play with my kid, listen to the wife's stories (okay have a conversation ) or fiddle with these audiophile thingies or what ?
I really wish, there was a good quality universal transport, a single connecting cable and a high quality receiver, that lets me listen to stereo or what ever mode I am in the mood for. Okay, I am willing to buy power cords for these two and even a power conditioner.  (okay, I will never be cured of this audiophilitis ). The Panasonic receivers are the first step in this direction.  Alex @ aplhifi has promised a transport that will do 44.1/24bit for Redbook, 88.2/24 for SACD,  48/24 for DVDA. I think I would like to explore this with my current XR50 or in future the XR70.
Digital amplification is the best thing happened to high-end. To prevent it from going crazy any further. Audiophiles should wakeup from the high-end reveries and smell the digital coffee.

[Rob Babcock]

Wonder if Alex has looked at the guts of the Panny's or other digital amps?  I can envision a pretty cool system based on a modded Pioneer DV-563A feeding an XR-45 (or new model).

If whatever deficiencied may or may not be present in the Sony S-Master Pro models can be addressed by mods, that may be a good choice.

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Wonder if Alex has looked at the guts of the Panny's or other digital amps?  I can envision a pretty cool system based on a modded Pioneer DV-563A feeding an XR-45 (or new model).

If whatever deficiencied may or may not be present in the Sony S-Master Pro models can be addressed by mods, that may be a good choice.

Alex says, the Sony digitally amplified dream systems, when modded can beat the TI driven receivers. What he has done is turn a FC7 dream systems's integrated dvd/receiver  into an integrated amp. All six channels are paralleled to provide just 2 channels. With this approach, you get direct CD/SACD. But only problem is that these integrated dvd/receivers transports seem to be notorious for their failure.
Alex is a busy man and I am busy too, we find it difficult to connect. But I hope to audition his work within a month.