Poll

At what point do you consider a piece of audio equipment to be vintage?

1950s and earlier
1 (1.2%)
1960s and earlier
8 (9.3%)
1970s and earlier
41 (47.7%)
1980s and earlier
29 (33.7%)
thick layer of dust is good enough for me
7 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 86

What Constitutes Vintage?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 20607 times.

SteveFord

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 5420
  • The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #60 on: 21 Mar 2013, 12:35 am »
I'm sure that's what has kept Stanton going; they abandoned the high end a long time ago with the 991S as far as I know.
My feeling is that so much of the vinyl resurgence lies with people's dissatisfaction with digital - the perfect sound forever really never materialized - along with a helping of nostalgia.  Seeing turntables at clubs couldn't hurt things, either.
It was funny seeing some young hipsters getting all excited about an old Captain Beefhart album at a used record store...
There was an article some time back about teen agers dismissing "big stereo" in favor of MP3s but I think they'll come around once the raging hormones settle down a bit and they get places of their own.
After a bit they might even think that their parents weren't such morons after all although that might take 20 or 30 years!

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #61 on: 21 Mar 2013, 01:57 am »
Vinyl seems to be making a comeback of sorts. Do you suppose that is due to the popularity of club DJ's and their antics with turntables? Is Stanton still in the TT business because of the club scene? That's what most of their dealer advertising seems to be aimed at.
I guess it is up to us to educate the youngsters. We must demonstrate that one does not get good audio from a computer or Ipod, and the cab of a pickup truck is a lousy place to install 2 or 3 large in stereo equipment.
i don't really think it has anything to do w/the dj scene.  i think it has more to do w/an initial simple fascination w/an old school technology, and once it is heard, the sound reels 'em in.  my daughter, who yust graduated from college, and her boyfriend, got hooked big time.  i found a nice wintage empire turntable for my daughter to buy for a present for her boyfriend.  (i demo'd it before i bought it, from an old fart like me, w/a nice system - it sounds killer!  :green: )  now, it seems they're spending a lot of time at wintage record stores, and my daughter is emailing me w/questions about older groups, and w/her recent "scores"!   :thumb:

this deck is ~50 years old, and you need to spend $2k or more on something new, to better it, imo...

doug s.

orthobiz

Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #62 on: 21 Mar 2013, 01:57 am »
relevant
doug s.

You mean "relewant" or maybe "relewent" to avoid any mispwonunciwations!

Paul

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #63 on: 21 Mar 2013, 01:59 am »
You mean "relewant" or maybe "relewent" to avoid any mispwonunciwations!

Paul
:lol:
i was wondering if anyone would notice that!   :green:

doug s.

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #64 on: 21 Mar 2013, 02:04 am »
I dont think broadcasters are interested in remaining relevant. I see FM as a race to the bottom, just like AM radio. Broadcasters want to make a buck, and they see their diminishing audience as knuckle-dragging yahoos and try their best to cater to them.
Eventually, FM broadcasting will disappear, a victim of satellite radio and the internet.
Sort of like the old Beta-VHS battle. VHS won, but then disappeared when DVD's hit the scene. And DVD's are on their way out now.

i agree, but i can only hope that, when the rewenue stops coming in, the broadcasters will rewert to quality programming.  cuz the rewenue will be decreasing steadily...  i don't think fm is gonna go away any time soon, tho.  as the rewenue decreases reach a critical threshold, the "biggies" will be looking for a way to cut their losses, and will start improving content/quality, or the cost of stations will start dropping as they start to bail, allowing lesser-funded "upstarts" a way back in...

doug s.

orthobiz

Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #65 on: 21 Mar 2013, 02:04 am »
I have a 1974 914 Porsche. It has fuel injection but no power windows, no power steering, no power brakes, no electric door locks, etc. It comes at the very tail end of the classic period of cars where carburetors ruled and there was minimal robotic/electronic. I can take apart the dashboard with a screwdriver and a 27mm nut holds on the steering wheel.

Compared to today's disposable goods, in many cases, the classic vintage stuff harkens back to the day when stuff was actually made by humans. And when you "look under the hood" you can actually see and understand what the heck is going on and what went into it. I worked at Dahlquist back in the day and watched my DQ-10's being made. By actual people, no less!

For me at age 57, that holds much of the allure of the old stuff. My Van Alstine stuff is modern but still has the human element. Even though the Linn has been upgraded umpteen times, it still rotates and makes me smile.

I love this hobby.

Paul

pansixt

Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #66 on: 21 Mar 2013, 02:04 am »
Yeah Dougie. We know you are just listening to the radio when you're typing. Surprising that you type as well as you do!!! 8)

And, Ah, you and me constitute vintage my friend. Or is it antique? I forget...

James

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #67 on: 21 Mar 2013, 02:11 am »
Yeah Dougie. We know you are just listening to the radio when you're typing. Surprising that you type as well as you do!!! 8)
ain't that the truth!   :thumb:

wpfw 89.3
"Night Jazz with Willard Jenkins"
http://www.wpfwfm.org/
the sound is glorious!!!   :banana piano: :drums: :guitar:

 8)

doug s.

Eric Strasen

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 164
  • Midwest S-16
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #68 on: 21 Mar 2013, 02:28 am »
Wow, that Fisher brings back memories of the 1950's, when a few radio stations -- especially in the Minneapolis area -- were permitted to run trial stereo broadcasts (one channel on an FM station, the other on an AM outlet). All this while the FCC was trying to decide on the Zenith/GE or the Crosby stereo FM systems. The gummint finally selected Zenith/GE, which many regarded as the inferior system.
Meanwhile Crosby's manufacturing company, Madison Fielding, marketed a number of high fidelity receivers set up for the Crosby stereo FM system. The father of a friend of mine bought one at a substantial discount, as it wouldn't receive Zenith/GE stereo FM.
 

pansixt

Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #69 on: 21 Mar 2013, 02:35 am »
I'll come pick up another loaner tuna from you. But will it work when I get it this time? :wink:

I know that was just some inexplicable anomaly with the other one. My MR78 continues to sound very fine.
It was modded by my guru Brett Mullen.

But I am open to demoing serious Tunas. And you are the noted authority, at least among our circles.

James  (Does the "J" resemble an inverted walking cane?)

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #70 on: 21 Mar 2013, 03:12 am »
I'll come pick up another loaner tuna from you. But will it work when I get it this time? :wink:

I know that was just some inexplicable anomaly with the other one. My MR78 continues to sound very fine.
It was modded by my guru Brett Mullen.

But I am open to demoing serious Tunas. And you are the noted authority, at least among our circles.

James  (Does the "J" resemble an inverted walking cane?)

hey!  that tuna i loaned you worked fine when i got it back!  what were you doing to it?   :lol:  seriously, its only issue was the meter itself; it was actually getting signal.  i opened it up, wiggled the meter, and it yumped right to life.  we can arrange another loaner.  but don't break it!   :green:

doug s.

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #71 on: 21 Mar 2013, 03:15 am »
Wow, that Fisher brings back memories of the 1950's, when a few radio stations -- especially in the Minneapolis area -- were permitted to run trial stereo broadcasts (one channel on an FM station, the other on an AM outlet). All this while the FCC was trying to decide on the Zenith/GE or the Crosby stereo FM systems. The gummint finally selected Zenith/GE, which many regarded as the inferior system.
Meanwhile Crosby's manufacturing company, Madison Fielding, marketed a number of high fidelity receivers set up for the Crosby stereo FM system. The father of a friend of mine bought one at a substantial discount, as it wouldn't receive Zenith/GE stereo FM.

why is it that it always seems the lesser quality tech is the one that makes it to market?  cd could have been 24/192 from the get-go.  beta was better than vhw.  oh well...

yup, this fisher 100r is one of many wintage tuna that says "stereo" on it, when it's a mono tuna set up for simulcast broadcasting w/am on one channel and fm on the other.  it has a mpx out which i use to send signal to a relatively modern studio-12 decoder; the sound is excellent....

doug s.

Eric Strasen

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 164
  • Midwest S-16
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #72 on: 21 Mar 2013, 03:44 am »
There's some interesting history on the net regarding the Zenith/GE v. Crosby business. Just Google Zenith/GE v. Crosby FM stereo for several good sites.
Basically, although the Crosby system was better in nearly every regard (frequency response, channel separation, noise rejection, etc.), it was not compatible with mono FM radios currently in American homes. The FCC had already been through the moving of FM to 88-108 MHZ following WWII, thus making all those high-dollar consoles with FM bands sold in the late 1930's instantly obsolete.
Also, many smaller-market FM stations were demodulating their signal somewhat, freeing up some bandwidth which they could sell to Muzak and Storecast for that execrable elevator music we all hated. They would need this bandwidth under the Crosby system, but not under Zenith/GE. Finally, both Zenith and General Electric had much deeper pockets than Crosby and, accordingly, much more influence in D.C.

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #73 on: 21 Mar 2013, 11:38 am »
There's some interesting history on the net regarding the Zenith/GE v. Crosby business. Just Google Zenith/GE v. Crosby FM stereo for several good sites.
Basically, although the Crosby system was better in nearly every regard (frequency response, channel separation, noise rejection, etc.), it was not compatible with mono FM radios currently in American homes. The FCC had already been through the moving of FM to 88-108 MHZ following WWII, thus making all those high-dollar consoles with FM bands sold in the late 1930's instantly obsolete.
Also, many smaller-market FM stations were demodulating their signal somewhat, freeing up some bandwidth which they could sell to Muzak and Storecast for that execrable elevator music we all hated. They would need this bandwidth under the Crosby system, but not under Zenith/GE. Finally, both Zenith and General Electric had much deeper pockets than Crosby and, accordingly, much more influence in D.C.
the last sentence in your comment made all the difference.   :wink:

doug s.

Eric Strasen

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 164
  • Midwest S-16
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #74 on: 21 Mar 2013, 12:14 pm »
I know politics is not welcome on this site, but I will risk banishment to say that big money not only influences executive and legislative decision making in D.C., but bureaucratic edicts also. An example of this was the FCC decision to move the FM band from 42-50 MHZ to 88-108 following the war. This was done primarily at the demand of the evil "General" David Sarnoff, head of RCA, who was trying to kill FM broadcasting (he feared it would interfere with television) and, at the same time, continue his ongoing feud with Edwin Armstrong, father of the superheterodyne circuit and, later, FM.
This damn near killed FM broadcasting, which didn't recover until the advent of FM stereo. Sarnoff's continuing battles -- legal and otherwise -- with Armstrong may have been responsible for the latter's unfortunate suicide.
If there is a hell, I hope the General is roasting in the deepest pit, right next to the inventor of aluminum siding.
Couldn't resist that Woody Allen reference...

Eric Strasen

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 164
  • Midwest S-16
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #75 on: 21 Mar 2013, 04:02 pm »
Just for you-know-what and giggles, here's some vintage gear from Madison Fielding -- an early receiver possibly equipped to handle FM stereo broadcasts using the Crosby system -- which never happened. I copped this picture from www.radiomuseum.org. I heard one of these in operation numerous times, and if memory serves, it sounded pretty good.



Eric Strasen

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 164
  • Midwest S-16
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #76 on: 23 Mar 2013, 03:50 am »
I can't believe I'm the only vote for 1950 and earlier vintage gear.
What about the McIntosh C8 preamp and its companion amplifier? Surviving examples are going for thousands in the audiophile market. I will admit I've never heard one, but they must sound good. Either that, or fools and their monies are being parted.
Must admit I was also tempted to vote for the "layer of dust" choice.

happytak

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #77 on: 11 Mar 2015, 03:26 am »
To me, "Vintage never gets old!"

jimtranr

Re: What Constitutes Vintage?
« Reply #78 on: 12 Dec 2015, 05:04 am »
I voted 1970s and earlier, and these two items in my main system just make that cut: