[roscoeiii]

Running Springs are the power conditioning that I eventually settled on. The Buss line is also great, but offers no surge protection (though PI Audio now sells a separate product for surge protection). I needed both conditioning and protection in one product, and the RSA gave me protection without limiting the dynamics of the amps (which I found other products to do, while not having this effect on other components in the chain). On the other hand, posts on the ncore thread suggest that the ncores sound better into the wall due to their built in conditioning (IIRC). So you may have additional felxability in what conditioning you choose.

[genjamon]

Morganc, just sent you a PM.  I see you have the Pendragons, bigger brothers to the Lore, and have really appreciated the positive impacts of crossover upgrade in the Pendragons.  What about that route?  What about upgrading to Pendragons?  I am quite curious the degree of improvement to expect from crossover upgrade.

[roscoeiii]

And on the OB stuff you mentioned, while I have no direct experience, my impression is that OB speakers need to be out into the room a good deal (an impossibility for me which is the reason I have no direct experience).

[James Romeyn]

I am not promoting anything I sell.

It's worth the half hour setup time/effort to audition my Ambiance/Mode Cancelling Array with any pair of stand mount speakers: http://jamesromeyn.com/home-audio-gear/ramca-romeyn-ambiancemode-cancelling-array/  This array provides acoustic benefits I've never heard before.  It arrived from ground work by Dr. Floyd Toole, Richard Shahinian, Duke LeJeune, and others. 

Stand mounts require subs, an indirect segue to the room treatment issue mentioned previously.  We associate treatment with improved bass performance.  I rather suggest, as a long term more effective solution, forgetting treatment to improve bass linearity in favor of the Distributed Sub Array philosophy (Geddes, Toole, Welti, LeJeune, etc).  Member *Scotty* introduced me to the Double Bass Array.  Though I've not auditioned the DBA it appears to offer all the acoustic benefits of DSA.  DSA and DBA offer real audible benefits sorely lacking in every other bass philosophy regardless of cost and complexity.  DBA done correctly may cost more and be more intrusive on the environment than DSA.

The combined Ambiance/Mode Cancelling Array + DSA define the state of the art for me anyway.

Regarding stand mount speakers: I auditioned the not yet released all-new Revel Performa3 M106 (circa $1700/pr MSRP) at 2012 CES.  You'll not be immediately concerned with subs.  IMO it can not be touched anywhere near its price.  In fact, I'd say the next step up, if there is one worth considering, is in the $5k+ range ($5k/pr Canalis Anima CS and $8k/pr AudioMachina come immediately to mind).  Last I heard several weeks ago, ETA delayed till approximately December.  I can not more strongly recommend delaying purchase till they appear.  Designer Kevin Voecks has a long and splendid history.  Performa3 is another in a fast growing line of speakers employing waveguides to match tweeter and mid bass radiation patterns (Geddes, LeJeune, etc).  http://www.revelspeakers.com/News/Story/80  I think Ncore matches Levinson performance, which was stupendous in the CES demo, leaving nothing to be desired.  I did not hear the slightly smaller/lower cost Performa3 M105 (5.25" midbass vs. 6.5") but it's worth considering, even more so if subs are in your long term future.  Do not, I repeat, do not, confuse Performa3 with earlier Performa, with absolutely nothing common between the two.

My other favorite stand mount (not heard) is the just released $1500/pr KEF LS50 5.25", whose coaxial driver appears exactly like Blade's, one of my favorite all time speakers (Blade philosophy shares some bass-loading attributes with DSA). 

The high end needs and benefits from small boutique designers/builders.  But audiophiles sometimes miss the cost/benefit of huge companies with large engineering departments such as KEF and Revel (Harman).         

[morganc]

Morganc, just sent you a PM.  I see you have the Pendragons, bigger brothers to the Lore, and have really appreciated the positive impacts of crossover upgrade in the Pendragons.  What about that route?  What about upgrading to Pendragons?  I am quite curious the degree of improvement to expect from crossover upgrade.

I responded to your PM, but I will post the same here:
1.  The Lores are fantastic for the price.  One of my favorites actually.
2.  The Pendragons are also very good.  Upgrading the caps improved them maybe 5% or so, a significant improvement, but not that big considering the price.   The Pendragons however are similar to the OB, in that they require a good 3 feet out into the room to breathe.  The bass is also a little boomy with the Dragons (especially in comparison to the Super-V's but I think that is an unfair comparison.)
3.  However when comparing the Pendragons or Lores to the Super V's, no contest.  The Super V's that I have heard at Michael HiFi's are/were mind blowing and the only room treatments he has was one panel at the first reflection point. 

[OzarkTom]

I will second the Super V choice. Danny Ritchie wins so many awards at the audio shows with these custom designed speakers. I have heard them twice at the shows, an incredible value.

[Rclark]

It's actually Richie without a T, you can find that easy enough. I know that would torque me some.

[genjamon]

Alright guys, the two most compelling sets of recommendations have been for Von Schweikert fullrangers or GR Research Super V's.  If I hunted hard and sold the Lores, the Super V's are probably attainable.  There are some options from Von Schweikert (VR-4JR or VR-33 trade-ins Albert can offer at used prices with in-home trial period) that are soundly in my current budget.  Does anyone have any experience with both who could share the sonic differences between them? 

It seems like my space would probably be adequate for the Super V's, but maybe on the small side.  I can easily give them 3 feet off the front wall, but the sidewalls might be a little bit too close?  2 feet is most likely the right distance given my listening position if I'm trying to get close to an equilateral triangle.  3 feet from sidewalls is possible, but would violate that equilateral triangle approach.  Any opinions on these spacing issues?

As for the Von Schweikert options, I have read that Channel Islands uses VSA speakers in designing his amps, and VSA uses the D200 amps in voicing their speakers - at least that's what was posted a few years ago in some forum posts.  As I understand it, the D200 are based on Hypex modules - not the latest NCore, but still I wonder if that means Von Schweikert would be voiced well for Ncores.   Any opinions on that? 

Those Lorelei's in the trading post sure are tempting me, though...

I know a lot of this isn't really about Ncore, but I think there are still issues of compatibility I'm curious about. 

[roscoeiii]

You can see my impressions of my VR-4 Gen IIs with ncores here. A very good pairing. What I wrote may come off as a bit negative, but the ncores were a pleasure to have in the system.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.msg1106866#msg1106866

[genjamon]

Interesting...thanks for that refresher.  I remember that post, and in fact that was one of the posts that really keyed me in to the possible need of a tube preamp with the Ncore.  That seemed to be the main lesson for me.  Great lows and highs, but great midrange engagement might need a tube preamp.  I feel like I need a bit more of that midrange engagement factor and to deal with some upper midrange overemphasis with the Lores.  I know the Truth is a very effective and transparent attenuator, and the buffer has proven utterly transparent in every test I've run.  It's only impacts when taking it in and out of the system with my Dayens Ampino (which is an integrated with an Alps pot) have been adding drive (especially in bass realm), and increasing delineation of instruments. 

With Ncore voiced for true transparency/linearity, and the same at play with my Truth.  It just seems like I need SOMETHING to bring that midrange engagement factor.  The DAC Cherry amps have seemed to be preferred slightly by several over Ncore due to their having this level of engagement.  I've read comments somewhere from Bruno about knowing how to voice the Ncores, but deciding to just keep things straight and transparent.  If the DAC Cherry has voiced theirs in a way that is appealing to many because of the engagement it provides in the critical midrange band, maybe I can obtain similar engagement by working with a different preamp.  Or adding a tube buffer in there somewhere.

Alright, but thanks again for reference to your VR-4 experience.

[roscoeiii]

Though I should also mention that part of the issue might have been my Musical Fidelity preamp. Was talking to someone at Music Direct the other day and he mentioned that emphasis on highs and lows was part of the Musical Fidelity house sound. So that could have been a contributing factor.

[roscoeiii]

You might also want to give Gopher a holler. He went from Zu to VSA VR-33s and now back to bigger better Zu speakers.

[genjamon]

I PM'd Gopher a few days ago, but haven't heard from him yet. I'm definitely curious for his take on the VR-33's.