[ajzepp]

Dave, you just hit on some of the issues I've had with this hobby, as well. I think like a lot of us, I get really excited about all the amazing gear out there. What I've had to do is continually remind myself that the gear shouldn't be my focus - the music and the movies should. In all honest, I could be very happy just sticking with a pair of Maggie MMGs instead of the 3.6s I have, just as I could happily live with the Grado SR80s instead of having a handful of more expensive phones and amps. I really tend to get caught up in all the new gear and all the reviews and feedback people share, but like you said, it can sometimes go from excitement to frustration. I've really had to work hard sometimes to avoid focusing on that extra 5 or 10% of refinement or sound quality and spend more time enjoying the 90% that is really enjoyable.

I actually found your experiences with the Q701 pretty inspiring, cause I love the idea of less expensive gear being preferred to more expensive gear. It's just another reminder that you really CAN get off the never ending upgrade-itis thing and find modestly priced options that are very satisfying. I'm still at the stage where I find it fun to try new headphones and amps, but the minute I start getting to the point where it's not fun, I'll stop doing it and just settle on what I have. That's what happened with me and spekaers. I eventually realized that I wasn't havign fun anymore trying to always make decisions on what to add or take away from my system....so I hit a point where I made the decision to just love what I have and be done with it. I haven't made a change to my speakers in four years and my amps in nearly 7. I think the stakes are lower with headphones since, generally, it's a less expensive hobby...but I can see myself hitting a similar point on this side of the fence, as well.

[grsimmon]

I have owned lots of headphones over the last 4 years, including most of the flagships.  I have found the AKG model(s) discussed here to be the best "cheaper"  headphone out there.  IMO it's just a great can.  I say cheaper cause it can be had for much less than list,  and obviously less than that if used.   Nothing wrong with used cans.   AKG did in fact move production to China,  but their more expensive models are still made in Austria. The only reason I sold it was because it was too big on my small skull,  and would slip off.   Comfort is so important;   there is no way I could get on with the Audeze models, just too heavy for me.
As for amps and output impedence.   Yes, outpedence is a very important consideration,  arguably the most important spec to look at with a prospective headphone amp.   Zero ohms or less is ideal (-minus 25 ohms)   There is a reason why a lot of companies aren't publishing that spec and you have to dig for it....

ha ha "outpedence"     meant output impedence

[DaveNote]

I have owned lots of headphones over the last 4 years, including most of the flagships.  I have found the AKG model(s) discussed here to be the best "cheaper"  headphone out there.  IMO it's just a great can.  I say cheaper cause it can be had for much less than list,  and obviously less than that if used.   Nothing wrong with used cans.   AKG did in fact move production to China,  but their more expensive models are still made in Austria. The only reason I sold it was because it was too big on my small skull,  and would slip off.   Comfort is so important;   there is no way I could get on with the Audeze models, just too heavy for me.
As for amps and output impedence.   Yes, outpedence is a very important consideration,  arguably the most important spec to look at with a prospective headphone amp.   Zero ohms or less is ideal.  There is a reason why a lot of companies aren't publishing that spec and you have to dig for it....

ha ha "outpedence"     meant output impedence

To a degree I've fallen for higher price meaning better performance in the past. But my Axiom speakers, Q701, and O2 amp has proven that it ain't necessarily so. And Bryston, long ago, showed me that you can get high end performance without having to pay the highest prices in the high end market.

Dave

[ajzepp]

I'm really enjoying spending my time comparing the Qs to my DT1350s. It's kind of weird because even though I don't mind lack of extension for movies, I think I do mind it with music. Just listening to my 1350s, which are flat and clean all the way down to 5hz, it sort of shows what is missing in the low end on the Qs. So far for music the 1350s are besting the Qs, and with movies the Qs are my choice. I cant really wear the 1350s for long periods of time like I can other headphones, so that's where I'll really value having the Qs. I think it's just not my preferrred sound for music, cause the 1350s are significantly better to my ears. It's funny cause Tyll seems to really be fond of the Qs, and he didn't have any problem with the build quality at all, which is just one more example of how he and I are COMPLETELY opposites of each other in terms of preferences. He doesnt like Grados, I love Grados. He doesn't like the t1s, I love the T1s. He really likes the new Phillips citiscape downtowns, and I think they are completely unremarkable in every way. Ironically the ONE singular example of headphones both he and I completely love would be the DT1350s. I had no interest in them at all, but I read his review and he sold me. I've pretty much been in shock with how good they are since I bought them. Just funny how he and I can be so different in pretty much every example but then find very stable, common ground with only these little guys lol.

[adydula]

What a difference in the low end!!

Are the highs subdued as the graph suggests?



Alex

[ajzepp]

The low end on these things is phenomenal....I do NOT like boomy headphones where the bass is over exaggerated....so to have this sort of extension and maintain this level of quality is pretty remarkable. It really stands out to a large degree when I compare these two headphones. The highs are very pleasant and natural to my ears....these headphones overall sound like mini-T1s. That's partly why I was shocked that Tyll was gushing over them, cause I know several of us at head-fi who love these phones agree that they're like having a smaller, sealed version of the T1s, but Tyll called them not just the best portables he'd ever heard, but the best supra-aural closed headphones period. He's since put the Sennheiser Amperiors in that same rare air, but I haven't heard those yet to compare. The 1350s are the best headphone under three bills that I've heard to date, though....I use them quite a bit at home in addition to taking them to work every day. They sound really, really good driven straight from my iPhone, but I was surprised to see that they will scale with a better amp, as well. The meier just took control of these little guys and made some beautiful music.

I've used them for movies at home, but the Qs will be better for use that will involve hours of straight listening. The 1350s are quite comfortable and they allow my ears to say much cooler than I thought they would, but I don't like anything clamping on my head for more than an hour or so at a time. I can't even really tell the Qs are on my head even after just two nights of playing around with them.

[adydula]

ajzepp,

The 1350 curve really kicks the Q on the low end for sure.....I read some of the reviews and they indeed have received rave reviews....

I would have to agree that they are indeed special as well.

The price range is reasonable for the performance...

I hope someday to audition a set!!

Hmmm lets see what I can sell...

Alex
 

[ajzepp]

ajzepp,

The 1350 curve really kicks the Q on the low end for sure.....I read some of the reviews and they indeed have received rave reviews....

I would have to agree that they are indeed special as well.

The price range is reasonable for the performance...

I hope someday to audition a set!!

Hmmm lets see what I can sell...

Alex
 

They would be a great option for anyone in the market for a portable.  The 1350s are the Beyers that even the Beyer haters like lol.

[ajzepp]

Well, I have to say, I'm really impresed with the Qs for movies. I finished watching Marathon Man tonight, and even though it's a few decades old the audio was perfectly crisp. Also watched The CAbin in the Woods and again, just a great experience. I'm very happy with the purchase and these will be ideal for the exact purpose I chose them for. I don't even notice they're on my head even after a couple of hours straight and they just sound fantastic with the Meier amp. I still don't really see myself using them for music, but as I mentioned earlier I spend more time with movies than I do music so these will get a lot of head time. 

[DaveNote]

Well, I have to say, I'm really impresed with the Qs for movies. I finished watching Marathon Man tonight, and even though it's a few decades old the audio was perfectly crisp. Also watched The CAbin in the Woods and again, just a great experience. I'm very happy with the purchase and these will be ideal for the exact purpose I chose them for. I don't even notice they're on my head even after a couple of hours straight and they just sound fantastic with the Meier amp. I still don't really see myself using them for music, but as I mentioned earlier I spend more time with movies than I do music so these will get a lot of head time. 

Excellent. I bought my AKG K550 for a special purpose. In my living room. Listening to internet radio over my iPad, drinking my morning coffee (as I am now) and for isolation when my wife's here watching TV when I don't. For this purpose better than the Q701 for me.

I'm glad you're happy with your Q.

Dave

[eclein]

I think I'm looking for 1350's next....maybe I'll trade my HE-5LE's to someone for some PS500's or 1350's just to hear something new. I love them but I love trying all different kind.
 
I've started trolling head-fi headphone sales forums for a deal on either one...Grado PS500 or Beyer 1350's.

[ajzepp]

Excellent. I bought my AKG K550 for a special purpose. In my living room. Listening to internet radio over my iPad, drinking my morning coffee (as I am now) and for isolation when my wife's here watching TV when I don't. For this purpose better than the Q701 for me.

I'm glad you're happy with your Q.

Dave

It's funny cause it just sort of hit me out of the blue last night....I was watching the end of Marathon Man and I honestly didn't even realize the headphones were still on my head. That's when I knew that I'd be keeping these....lol  I'm glad you love these so much, Dave, cause I wouldn't have even had them on my radar otherwise....and it seems they fill a huge need for me. 

[ajzepp]

I think I'm looking for 1350's next....maybe I'll trade my HE-5LE's to someone for some PS500's or 1350's just to hear something new. I love them but I love trying all different kind.
 
I've started trolling head-fi headphone sales forums for a deal on either one...Grado PS500 or Beyer 1350's.

If I had to choose two of my headphones that would be able to satisfy every audio need I have, those would be the two Id pick. I can't say enough about both of them...I truly get a whole lot of enjoyment from those beauties.

[DaveNote]

ajzepp, I have closely read your comments about the Beyer DT1350, which prompted me to look at the InnerFidelity review. They look like killer headphones, to be sure. I would do with them as you did with me with the Q based - based on your assessment alone, I think I'd get it. I thought about it carefully, but for once had to say no to my first inclination. As I explained in an earlier post, I'm not comfortable, oddly, having a choice of headphones to use for the same application, eg. two for the main system (what do I do with my LCD), choices for my iPad use, and choices for my podcast listening. Setting aside my incurable laziness, too many choices confuse me, they push my limited brain capacity too much. No fun. But unless I could find another application where the 1350 would work well, I am, for once in a long time, satisfied with the cans I have. Another problem for me is on-the-ear headphones. I've never owned that didn't quickly end up hurting my ears. I believe you made a point that the 1350 wasn't as comfortable as the Q.

But in any case, I truly appreciate the heads' up on the 1350. Things change and if they do for me, that might lead me to consider them, again.

Dave

[ajzepp]

ajzepp, I have closely read your comments about the Beyer DT1350, which prompted me to look at the InnerFidelity review. They look like killer headphones, to be sure. I would do with them as you did with me with the Q based - based on your assessment alone, I think I'd get it. I thought about it carefully, but for once had to say no to my first inclination. As I explained in an earlier post, I'm not comfortable, oddly, having a choice of headphones to use for the same application, eg. two for the main system (what do I do with my LCD), choices for my iPad use, and choices for my podcast listening. Setting aside my incurable laziness, too many choices confuse me, they push my limited brain capacity too much. No fun. But unless I could find another application where the 1350 would work well, I am, for once in a long time, satisfied with the cans I have. Another problem for me is on-the-ear headphones. I've never owned that didn't quickly end up hurting my ears. I believe you made a point that the 1350 wasn't as comfortable as the Q.

But in any case, I truly appreciate the heads' up on the 1350. Things change and if they do for me, that might lead me to consider them, again.

Dave

If you don't like supra-aurals, you won't like the 1350s most likely. They are comfortable for portables, and I like the ear pads quite a lot since they keep my ears cool, but they do have some clamp (which allows them to isolate so well) and it's probably not the type of headphone you'd want to wear for long periods of time. I don't consider them uncomfortable by any means, but the Qs are clearly a much better choice for sessions that go more than 1.5-2+ hours. 

[eclein]

Personally I have purchased most of my main rig based on folks opinions and I love the sound. I listen, read, and do it some more and then make an educated guess. Its my guess, my cash, my ears so I'd never bitch as I made the decision.

I love reading folks thoughts on stuff, as far as I know its all good so share away folks. Dave lets keep the circle, moderator etc. out of this thread OK. You understand I think, please feel free to drop me a note if you don't, no reason to go any further with that.

 Zepp and I are in tune as some others I'm sure are also. Its nice because it's like having 2 budgets to blow on cans...LOL!!!!! And when he says something regarding the sound I know pretty much exactly what he's talking about. Sometimes, I say too much or get too excited and over cook my posts...LOL.....I've had people buy stuff, not like it and tell me about it as they seem to have purchased based on my thoughts so I've tried to really tone down the way I write now........anyway this is all good for me as I'm re-invigorated about headphones again...I was in a stereo lull!!
 Be well gents...

[dB Cooper]

People seem to divide even more on headphones than on speakers. There probably are multiple reasons for this. First, no headphone should have a 'flat' response. If they do, music mixed for speakers will sound 'bright' on them. Air is a high filter and 'rolls off' highs as you get further from the driver. With a headphone driver half an inch from your ear, this doesn't happen, unlike with a tweeter 12 feet away. So headphone mfrs must make judgments on how much to deviate from 'flat', based on their particular instrumentation and subjective judgments (read:ears.)

This is tricky. I can vouch for this, having bought my Sennheiser 555's to lift the 'Sennheiser veil' of the 580's I owned back in the day. So how did it work out? Well, I wound up usually dialing back the treble to about where I was before. A little less when I have crossfeed going (this seems to roll the highs somewhat.)

So I am on the prowl again looking for something a little 'darker' than my 555's. Right now the HD600 is a leading candidate.  I liked the LCD2 when I heard them but the price is probably out of rationalization range. I figure if I get two or three good cans, I can do the headphone equivalent of 'tube rolling'.

[DaveNote]

People seem to divide even more on headphones than on speakers. There probably are multiple reasons for this. First, no headphone should have a 'flat' response. If they do, music mixed for speakers will sound 'bright' on them. Air is a high filter and 'rolls off' highs as you get further from the driver. With a headphone driver half an inch from your ear, this doesn't happen, unlike with a tweeter 12 feet away. So headphone mfrs must make judgments on how much to deviate from 'flat', based on their particular instrumentation and subjective judgments (read:ears.)

Thanks dB. Well explained. And helpful.

Dave

[dB Cooper]

I am a headphone nerd...