The great Debate speaker wire, voodoo/pseudo science, vs. common sense

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Devil Doc

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double post

Wayner

That's the way life works. We observe things in our world and think we see a pattern and then draw conclusions based on those patterns, even though there may be unknown, true causes that are completely hidden from our detection that are the complete cause of what we observe.

Back to the 5 cable designers and their roundtable discussion points out that here we have 5 guys truly trying to solve the "cable mystery", all with completely different approaches. And I'm sure they all think they (individually) are all on the correct path, and their theories are sound (pun intended).

But the fact is, they may all have come to incorrect conclusions. We understand the basics, but at the sub-atomic level, in many cases, don't really have a handle on what is going on, nor how those behaviors affect matter/physics at courser levels.

While we all think we can hear a change, swapping out cables, there are so many factors involved from the equipment itself to weather conditions to audio memory, that many conclusions made on day one are reversed on day 2. I've done that myself.

So, the mysteries go on.......

Wayner

passingthrough

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Public Service Announcement time:

Quote
Not true. Law is a step up from theory, and by the way gravity is a law not a theory.

A Law serves a different purpose than a Theory in Science, it's not "a step up".    A theory is NOT a "transitory law" or a "law in waiting". There is NO hierarchy being implied by scientists who use these words. That is, a law is neither "better than" nor "above" a theory.

  • A Law in science refers primarily to What happens.  E.g. A mathematical formula that let's you calculate what will happen when something else happens.
  • A Theory primarily deals with Why and How something happens. 

There is both a Law and Theory dealing with Gravity.  The theory that explains why things fall is Einstein's Theory of General Relativity.

Side note:  it is an unfortunate accident of language that the word "theory" is used in science for this purpose.  This leads to those who have no science education or have forgotten what they might have learned in high school to think that a Theory in science is the same thing as the common loose use of the word theory, such as "in theory, a short run of more expensive wire passing the signal into my speaker should make the woofer sound better than my current adequately sized wire".

Devil Doc

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I blame the nuns. Good at English, not so much science. :lol:

Doc

planet10

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Science guys always jump on the DBT as 'proof' all cables are the same.


And one must consider that the most widely touted DBT -- ABX -- is statistically incapable of proving 2 DUT are the same. If it proves 2 DUT are different it is a strong result thou.

dave

adydula

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So if you cant hear it...why does it matter???

Alex

SteveFord

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Wayner,
With that Roundtable I assume you mean the current issue of TAS? 
What struck me is that the question regarding pricing wasn't asked of the designers.   I guess that would be deemed impolite.
Fastfred,
A Volunteer is someone who is a Facilitator (or a Moderator, if you will) of a particular Circle.  I do the Planar and now the Vintage Circles which keeps me off the streets.
If you have an idea for a particular Circle which isn't already covered you can put forth a proposal and see if it sinks or swims. 
The person you would wish to speak with is JohnR.

FWIW, I can hear differences in speaker cable and settled on Kimbers as being the ones that work best in my systems.  4TC for MMGs, 8TC for 1.7s and I'm planning on upgrading to 12TC for the 3.7s.
The sonic differences in speaker cables are pretty apparent with Magnepans but I don't know if I could tell the difference with, say, my old JBLs.
The giant garden hose ones have been sold off long ago.

fastfred

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Wayner,
With that Roundtable I assume you mean the current issue of TAS? 
What struck me is that the question regarding pricing wasn't asked of the designers.   I guess that would be deemed impolite.
Fastfred,
A Volunteer is someone who is a Facilitator (or a Moderator, if you will) of a particular Circle.  I do the Planar and now the Vintage Circles which keeps me off the streets.
If you have an idea for a particular Circle which isn't already covered you can put forth a proposal and see if it sinks or swims. 
The person you would wish to speak with is JohnR.

FWIW, I can hear differences in speaker cable and settled on Kimbers as being the ones that work best in my systems.  4TC for MMGs, 8TC for 1.7s and I'm planning on upgrading to 12TC for the 3.7s.
The sonic differences in speaker cables are pretty apparent with Magnepans but I don't know if I could tell the difference with, say, my old JBLs.
The giant garden hose ones have been sold off long ago.


Thanks for your response Steve. I haven't had a chance to check out the vintage circle yet. I just sorted out a ground problem in my Scott 299B a full monty rebuild.
Thanks again.


                                           ......................... Fred Petersen (fastfred)