[jarcher]

Not sure if this should go under "vintage" or "vinyl" circle - or even "cheap & cheerful", but as this circle seems to be more active, here goes:

Setting up a vintage audio system & looking for good values in older turntables.  Prefer to keep things under $300.  Any suggestions? Suggested pricing is also appreciated.

Some I've been considering:

Dual 1019 & 521 - just thinking belt driven, but guess there's no reason to exclude direct drive
Kenwood 2055 / 3055 - like the idea of a "heavy" table - and these seem to use corian bases.
Pioneer - but which ones are "good" and which just 80's+ garbage

Denon's & Thorens seem nice, but asking prices are high.

Thanks for the advice!

[Wayner]

Empires (made in the USA) have motors built like tanks and usually do not have any problems that can't be fixed.

Also, Technics DD tables, such as the SL1200 or older models certainly compare to any direct drive out there.

Sony also has some vintage DD tables, like the PS-X5.

Old ARs can bring sonic bliss, but you will encounter problems more then likely with the motor, tonearm and suspension,
as these tables are getting to be really old and require some knowledge/skill to bring them up to performance
levels.

Wayner

[rajacat]

Look around on ebay. Several years ago I bought a Thorens TD125 Mk II in very good shape for $125 plus shipping.

[Ericus Rex]

You might be able to find an Oracle Alexandria Mk. I or II for under $300.  Those are great sounding tables.   Micro Seiki made some great tables.  You can get a BL-21 for under $300.  Is early 80's vintage enough for you?

[randytsuch]

When I was looking for tables, I considered Systemdek, supposed to be good for the price.

I ended up with an old empire, nice table but I put a lot of time and dollars into it after buying it.

Randy

[nocoastjazz]

It will tough to stay under $300 and get awesome performance unless you buy a turntable with a tonearm, which might rule out a handful of vintage tables that often are sold without tonearms or with tonearms that are really not that great (Rek-o-Kut, etc.) without some serious tweaking.

I am a huge idler fan and currently use a modded Lenco L78 with a PTP4 and a Jelco 12" arm.  A stock Lenco L75 or L78 (heavy platter Lenco) might run right around $300 or under.  This would be complete, with tonearm, and possibly completely refurbished with a nice idler wheel and the V-blocks in the tonearm replaced. 

There are some nice direct drives which might fit the bill, a Luxman PD272, Technics SL1200, SL1100, SL150.

I spent right around $300 to buy and refurbish a Thorens TD150 belt drive and outfit it with a custom tonearm board and Jelco tonearm.  Looked and sounded great!

[bogiedr]

On EpRay I picked up a Technics SL 1500, (fully manual, vintage 1975), for $91.00. Amazing table. Very heavy platter, perfect pitch, solid table, highly reccomend!!! I always thought something made by Panasonic could not be high end ... WOW was I wrong!!! I highly reccomend those early Technics to anyone looking for a turntable.  Thank you Wayner!!!

[neobop]

Check these out:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-CS-5000-Quartz-Turntable-Wood-Plinth-Dust-Cover-GRADO-MF3-Germany-/330783802745?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d04404579

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SONY-RECORD-PLAYER-TURNTABLE-PS-X6-DIRECT-DRIVE-SERIAL-800443-FREE-SHIP-/380465306556?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item58957fdbbc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-YP-511-Direct-Drive-Audiophile-Turntable-SHURE-M91ED-/120977030967?_trksid=m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1736597555967688306&_qi=RTM1084480

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-NATURAL-SOUND-TURNTABLE-PF-800-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/140837067039?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20ca8b191f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-KENWOOD-KD-500-Turntable-Direct-Drive-w-acrylic-cover-/290767578612?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item43b31925f4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Empire-Scientific-Corp-Model-698-Turntable-/120977453213?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c2ad1709d


Dual 5000 is nice belt drive with speed control.  Better hurry if you want this one.

I never owned any of these tables except the KD500 (excellent).  This one comes with a Black Widow arm (not pictured).  It will need a high compliance cart.
 
The Yamaha PF800 is a highly regarded belt drive table.  With shipping it will probably be somewhat outside your budget.

Wayner can tell you about the Empire and Sony and what cart might be good with the arm.

I don't know much about the Yamaha YP511.  I heard a few similar Yamaha tables back in the day and they seem pretty decent.

There are also some Technics and a couple of Denon DP37F.  There are quite a few overpriced tables. It might be a good idea to check on value.

I also saw a Thorens TD 125 - $255 and climbing.  I'm not sure how this one stacks up at that price.

Good luck
neo

[jimdgoulding]

Great post, Neo.  I had a KD500 once.  Still have a Micro Seiki BL91 that I'm about to put into play.

[doug s.]

my recommendation is empire.  208/298/398 are all the same deck w/different (or no) arm.  498/598 series offers suspension, but conversion difficulty if you later wanna install an aftermarket arm, compared to the earlier unsuspended decks.  498 is extremely rare, w/heavier 1-piece platter more similar to the older decks.  these frequently sell for over $300, sometimes a lot over $300, but patience will nab you one in your price range...

doug s.

[Letitroll98]

neo had some great finds, while looking at them I also came across this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-VINTAGE-THORENS-TD-165-TURNTABLE-/110942167310?_trksid=p4340.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D7%26meid%3D1740620041299928132%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D1004%26rk%3D1%26

[jarcher]

Hey guys - thanks for all the great suggestions.  If there's curiosity about the $300 limit, that's because I already recently got a decent TT : a VPI traveller : and so this is more for entertainment for a "vintage" system I putting together than ultra critical listening.  On the other hand don't want to go too cheap & have something that's more conversation piece vs something w/ worthwhile sound quality.

I think for the moment I'm focusing on the Kenwoods w/ the "cultured marble" bases, mostly because I like a heavier table to control for resonances + the uniqueness factor.  I figure there are a lot more decent wood based TT's out there than "cultured marble" style ones.

Seems like Kenwood / Pioneer are a bit better on the direct drive vs belt driven?  I know this is getting very specific, but if I were to choose between the otherwise similar Kenwood "cultured marble" base TT's in belt vs DD, which would be better?  Seems like the specs for the DD are better, but I've learned to believe my ears vs specs.

Some I'm considering for your comment / suggestion:

Belt: 2055 / 3055
DD: 500, 5070, 550, 600, 650

The higher end ones have the advantage of having replaceable tone arms, but would want to make sure I stay w/ in my budget.

P.s. Long ago I had the legendary L07D which I bought for $125 only to have it disappeared by ex-roomates following a move overseas.  Just found out today that they go for $2,500+   

[simoon]

I will put in my .02.

I agree that Systemdeks are worth searching out, but they tend to go for a bit more than $300. More like $350 with arm.

You can find Luxman PD-264 and PD-262 on ebay for under $300. You might have to be a bit patient, but they are there. Worth the wait.  I believe these are some of he best performers for the price. And they look great, too.

There's an Ariston Q-deck on ebay now for $225. Not a bad table either.

P.s. Long ago I had the legendary L07D which I bought for $125 only to have it disappeared by ex-roomates following a move overseas.  Just found out today that they go for $2,500+   

Seriously?!

One of he best tables, ever.

[doug s.]

Hey guys - thanks for all the great suggestions.  If there's curiosity about the $300 limit, that's because I already recently got a decent TT : a VPI traveller : and so this is more for entertainment for a "vintage" system I putting together than ultra critical listening.  On the other hand don't want to go too cheap & have something that's more conversation piece vs something w/ worthwhile sound quality.

I think for the moment I'm focusing on the Kenwoods w/ the "cultured marble" bases, mostly because I like a heavier table to control for resonances + the uniqueness factor.  I figure there are a lot more decent wood based TT's out there than "cultured marble" style ones.

Seems like Kenwood / Pioneer are a bit better on the direct drive vs belt driven?  I know this is getting very specific, but if I were to choose between the otherwise similar Kenwood "cultured marble" base TT's in belt vs DD, which would be better?  Seems like the specs for the DD are better, but I've learned to believe my ears vs specs.

Some I'm considering for your comment / suggestion:

Belt: 2055 / 3055
DD: 500, 5070, 550, 600, 650

The higher end ones have the advantage of having replaceable tone arms, but would want to make sure I stay w/ in my budget.

P.s. Long ago I had the legendary L07D which I bought for $125 only to have it disappeared by ex-roomates following a move overseas.  Just found out today that they go for $2,500+   

stay away from the empires, then - you don't want a $300 deck outperforming your vpi.     properly set up, (ie - upgraded tonearm), the empires will compete w/the vpi classic.

doug s.

[Lyndon]

stay away from the empires, then - you don't want a $300 deck outperforming your vpi.

Ah, Doug, it is Saturday morning, we just had a refreshing rain shower to sweeten the air in Salt Lake City, and you go and throw
some gunpowder on a turntable thread.

jarcher, there is a plethora of good tt's out there.  Just be careful with how they ship them.

Listening to Sam Cooke.  What a sweet voice..

[jarcher]

........also thinking maybe to do a more modern table if the price is right.  W/in the next 2hr's there's a CJ Sonagraphe SG3 with no bids @ $300 and a VPI 19 JR at current bid of $305. 

Anybody care to comment on which might be the better table - they seem very similar.  The CJ basically seems like a SOTA comet.

I doubt the VPI will close anywhere near $305, as these things tend to go on the tiresome fleabay.  But curious to throw in a bid.  To bad the shipping from the west coast is gonna kill me.  VPI doesn't seem to do light tables.

[doug s.]

Ah, Doug, it is Saturday morning, we just had a refreshing rain shower to sweeten the air in Salt Lake City, and you go and throw
some gunpowder on a turntable thread.

seriously, lyndon, a stock empire 200-series deck will see off most if not all modern decks up to the $2k-$2.5k range.  a modern arm will offer the best improvement.  imo of course!   

doug s.

[doug s.]

jarcher, regardless of what turntable you set your sights on, never bid directly to ebay - it will yust drive the price up, as folks will wanna try to get a "you are high bidder" notice, and they will continue to bid against your proxy bid.  use a snipe service that will place your bid 5 seconds before auction close - either you get it at your price, or not.  and, you don't have to babysit the bid either, it goes in automatically from a cloud server...

doug s.

[jarcher]

hey doug - yes I'm investigating snipping services as we speak.  I had thought that the auto bid raise thing on ebay was enough, but w/ half a dozen auctions or more I'm finding that someone is outbidding by $1 in the last few seconds, so I have no choice. 

If you have suggestions on good / safe services, please let me know.  Not so happy to share my ebay info w/ a third party, but these days I guess you've got no choice w/ ebay.

[Ericus Rex]

I've been using esnipe.com for years.  I've never had a problem.  I think it still costs 25 cents per win.