HT Question

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #20 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 06:43 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

If we do get together, I can bring my SVS.

I am ready to go next Saturday, 6/12!!! Are you?

-Ed

ctviggen · « **Reply #21 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 06:54 pm »

I can come over Saturday, as my girlfriend will be having a "girls weekend" Friday and most of Saturday. I typically ride my bike Saturday morning, but let me know what time to meet.

This will also allow me to put on my new cables and rearrange the system so that, when my VMPS speakers finally do arrive, I just need to plug them in.

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:00 pm »

Let's see what time is good for George....

-Ed

RickRichardson · « **Reply #23 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:02 pm »

I cannot comment on RM-40's, because I am using RM-30M L&R speakers, but I am a strong advocate of using a center speaker for HT. I am using the RM-30C and it is terrific. I have tried a wide varitey of speakers for my HT set up, and always found the weakest link was the center speaker. No matter what decent processor you use, a clear, articulate center speaker makes a huge difference in intelligability of dialoge and give you the flexibility to tweek the surround to get what works for your ears. For example, some progam material does not have a good mix and emphasizes the surround effects over the center channel. In those cases, you want to increase the center a couple of dB, which most processors can do.

I tried probably 8 or 9 different center speakers, including dynamic, planar and ribbons. Until the RM-30's came along, I had settled on two 626R's set horizontally on top of my 65" RRTV. The RM-30 is better then two 626R's in my opinion.

I also tried the phantom center route, letting the processor try to share the center info with the L&R's. It never worked for me. Although, I do not have Rm-40's, which may do a better job. I tried this with several processors, including Outlaw, Meridian, Lexicon and Integra Research, and I always preferred using a center channel.

I found that using a good processor and center speaker allows you to choose from the many processing modes to find something that works for my room. I want something that will come closest to matching the size and presentation with the image of my 65" TV. Many of the modes give an auditory image that is too far back, or forward. Also, there are differences in the type of input signals (DVD, sat, digital OTA, etc.), so you can find the right combination for each signal.

Regarding the Outlaw, I have not tried the alternative you mentioned, but I had an Outlaw processor for a month and sent it back. My primary problem with it was it sounded grainy and veiled compared to other processers. It is an excellent value, without doubt, but I found used Meridian and Lexicons sounded better. I am now using and Intergra Research DTC-9.4, which I like alot. The sound is better(better clarity and transparency) than a Lexicon MC-1 or Meridian 565.

So, my vote is for a center first, and subs latter, probably after room treatment.

ctviggen · « **Reply #24 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:12 pm »

Ed,

Sounds good. I can box everything up Friday night and put it in my car (a hatchback, luckily), so I can be over George's anytime. If I ride my bike, I plan on riding 35 miles, which will take me about 3 hours (I'm slow). I can be at George's as early as noon-12:30 riding my bike and anytime if I wait until Sunday to ride.

zybar · « **Reply #25 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:15 pm »

The trend seems to be if you have a big honking TV between your speakers you NEED a center channel (no disagreement there).

Since I don't have a big tv to mess things up, the lack of center doesn't seem to present an issue. Until I can hear the RM 30 Center in my system, this is theory only.

I asked Marbles to run a test without the center channel on (and having a TV between the speakers) and he thought it was pretty good without the center. I believe he said that on movies it was tought to hear a difference.

In no way am I saying a center won't possibly improve things, I am simply of the opinion that if budget is an issue, go sub first.

As for the Outlaw...I have not found it grainy when playing movies (I would not use ANY pre/pro - including the very expensive Lexicon processors for 2 channel). I did compare it to Lexicon MC-8 and although the MC-8 was a little better, the cost difference didn't justify the extra cash.

George

Marbles · « **Reply #26 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:27 pm »

Quote from: zybar

I asked Marbles to run a test without the center channel on (and having a TV between the speakers) and he thought it was pretty good without the center. I believe he said that on movies it was tought to hear a difference.
...

Two things, my TV is between, but several feet behind my speakers.

The other thing is that I didn't say it was hard to tell, what I said was there were subtle differences. I said if you didn't have a center channel and were happy, then I wouldn't spend the difference to get a center channel. This was for both off and on center listening. Or at least that's what I think I said without going back to that thread.

ctviggen · « **Reply #27 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:28 pm »

If I had a chance to do it over again, I probably would go with a relatively cheap surround processor and a good 2-channel preamp. I don't think that movies require that great of a processor. But, my tastes are to good stereo and ok movies and I don't listen to surround music. Having said that, I do think that the Proceed is a nice sounding processor, even for 2-channel. Whether it's better than, say, a tube preamp is something I don't know. Plus, I bought the Proceed used and it's really been a good processor, once I upgraded the software.

Marbles · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:39 pm »

If I were to advise someone, it would be similar. I would find it very hard to use a pre/pro or receiver for two channel. So I would get a great two channel pre. I would then get a receiver (used off Agon), and I'm partial to the Pioneer Elite models, for HT processing and surround amp duties.

I would get a seperate amp for the front two channels and probably the front 3 channels.

In fact, I would get this guy right here:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1090031691

$2400 is a lot more than the Outlaw, but you would get a very nice Pre/pro, all the latest and greatest bells whistles and hookups, as well as 7 channels of decent amps. Take the fronts off with a seperate amp and the center and surround amps of the Elite will be even better.

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #29 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:52 pm »

The only reason I'm asking about choosing between the outlaw and the sherwood is because I can get the sherwood at a steal price (only a couple hundred more) thru a family friend.

-Ed

ctviggen · « **Reply #30 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 07:55 pm »

I definitely recommend used for a lot of electronics. Heck, I bought a ton of stuff used. I do have to say that I had an Onkyo receiver that I was always turning up the center channel on (and that's even after I got my 2-channel amp, which really helped the Onkyo a lot, as now it only had to drive three channels). With the Proceed, I thought I'd have the same problem, so I programmed my Pronto remote to be able to increase the volume of the center channel. However, I never used this once. So, as long as you do the research and select a decent receiver (although the Outlaw is hard to beat -- it's not a bad price, even new), then you'll be fine and can spend money where it really counts. The Proceed is probably -- even now, when Proceed is no more -- a bit too expensive for what it does.

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 08:03 pm »

Any really good tube pre/pros around 1k?

-Ed

Marbles · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 08:26 pm »

This is the only tube 5.1 pre/pro that I am aware of

see more info here: http://www.fosgateaudionics.com/products/FAP-V1.asp

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 08:38 pm »

What about doing a tube mod to my DVD player or CD player instead?

-Ed

Marbles · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 08:45 pm »

Quote from: sbcgroup1

What about doing a tube mod to my DVD player or CD player instead?

-Ed

Go ahead, there are a few modders on this site that can do it.....very pricey though.

ctviggen · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 08:48 pm »

There are also come CD players that have tubes in them -- I was thinking of going this route, too.

Marbles · « **Reply #36 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 08:58 pm »

I've had the AH Tjoeb 98 and the nOrh CD-1. Both very nice tubed CDP's, but neither one could hold a candle to my current transport/DAC, but neither one costs anything close to it either.

I have never tried a tubed DVDP, and don't think any come from the factory that way....modding them with tubes is pricey.

Marbles · « **Reply #37 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 09:38 pm »

This would be a great pre-pro too, and as mentioned, could be a very nice amp for center/surrounds (but not for fronts)...

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?miscrcvr&1086919353

For the money, this would be a better deal than the Outlaw, Sherwood, or about anything else you can think of IMO.

Link to more info : http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_2046366_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #38 on:** 8 Jun 2004, 12:58 pm »

Well, my amps are Earthquake Cinenovas at 600WPC. I only need a pre/pro, not a receiver.

Right now, the Sherwood seems like the way to go, if we were to do an "all in one". Unless you're suggesting I use the elite as a pre only.

More suggestions welcome!!!

-Ed

zybar · « **Reply #39 on:** 8 Jun 2004, 01:40 pm »

Ed,

Nothing wrong with using a receiver for just pre/pro duties. You would simply need to hear a receiver vs. pre/pro (assuming they cost the same amount) and let your ears decide.

If the dollar amount is the same, it really shouldn't matter that you aren't using the amps in the receiver...

George