[planet10]

the Dayton Audio PS220-8 8" Point Source Full-Range Neo driver (quite a mouthful) crossed over with the 15" Eminence Alpha 15A

That Dayton is quite good. Benefits from some tweaks.



My experience with the Eminance is not near as posisble. Many seem to like this woofer, i find its performance comserite with its low cost.

dave

[Early B.]

I'm a fan of OB speakers. Nonetheless, I replaced a pair of OB speakers with box speakers. Couldn't tell the difference in terms of soundstage, air, etc. What I realized is that a well-designed box speaker can (and should) have all the sonic attributes that OB fans enjoy. 

I also think that most people never hear just how good their box speakers sound due to room constraints. Most speakers can benefit from being pulled out into the room, but folks with box speakers usually have them too close to the front wall, so they're gonna sound, "boxy." I recall an instance many years ago when a buyer visited my house to pick up the speakers I was selling. For some reason, I pulled them from the wall so he could hear them and they sounded 10x better than I ever heard them. I wouldn't have sold them had I known how good they really were.

[FullRangeMan]

Below the baffle cutoff the bass falls off at 6dB/octave.  The narrower the baffle the higher up in frequeny tis occurs.

This is compensated for with either a filter or a high Q woofer. The filter is an agressive one that throws away sensitivity for extension. This is why you often see 1 or more 15 or 18” bass drivers. Much of their capability is being tossed out.

dave

Well this is a thread started in Aug2012 in these years the drivers may had evolved a bit, it yet is a situation full of compromises, I came to conclude the way is to settle down to a single FR without a woofer like one sole F15 or F18 what result is a simple and inexpensive project.

Another ''solution'' that I found interesting would be use a woofer in a BR box or an active sub per channel.

[planet10]

Nothing to do with drivers, just physics and it hasn’t changed.

dave

[FullRangeMan]

Nothing to do with drivers, just physics and it hasn’t changed.

dave

Certainly Iam aware these physics, I was referring to the Dayton FR and the woofers. One 15'' OB woofer is not suffice to my personal taste but one suited 15'' woofer in a big BR box will have great effect on the bass.

[Bumpy]

I'm a fan of OB speakers. Nonetheless, I replaced a pair of OB speakers with box speakers. Couldn't tell the difference in terms of soundstage, air, etc. What I realized is that a well-designed box speaker can (and should) have all the sonic attributes that OB fans enjoy. 

Sorry but this is just nonsense. I have listened to most makes of box speakers at home, in dealers and at shows, for over 50 years and have never heard one that matches my OBs.

[Early B.]

Sorry but this is just nonsense. I have listened to most makes of box speakers at home, in dealers and at shows, for over 50 years and have never heard one that matches my OBs.

You gotta accept the notion that there are always exceptions and outliers in every facet of human endeavor. In audio, there are few absolutes. Glad you're enjoying your OB speakers, but there's always gonna be other stuff out there that's just as good or better.

[sumoking]

You gotta accept the notion that there are always exceptions and outliers in every facet of human endeavor. In audio, there are few absolutes. Glad you're enjoying your OB speakers, but there's always gonna be other stuff out there that's just as good or better.

I would agree and say there are always exceptions.
However, I have listen to many fantastic box speakers and even Maggie’s, ML, Jantzen electrostatics, and others  mostly in my personal listening area. It was a revelation to listen at the Spatial Audio older M3STurbo At the time. For there price point, the more open sound with sound staging and timbre so like real instruments. It was immediate and the feeling and realization that I was operating out of a different paradigm. Problem, was although the bass was the most tuneful I had EVER heard, it wasn’t deep enough and powerful. Enter, the x-3’s, with a powered sub and then everything was more refined, tonally accurate and deep.  I still do not get my room pressurized I got with my Shahinian Double Eagle subwoofers, but it is close and everything else is phenomenal. They also reflect the equipment in the chain more true than any other loudspeaker I have had in my listening space.

[Bumpy]

What I realized is that a well-designed box speaker can (and should) have all the sonic attributes that OB fans enjoy. 

My aim was to point out that sweeping statements like this are simply not true.

[Tyson]

There are excellent OB speakers and excellent box speakers.  Some people have a strong preference for one, some people have a strong preference for the other.  Me, I'm an OB person in general.  But I also recognize that box speakers present music in a way that OB doesn't, and some people prefer that. 

No speaker is perfect, so as a listener one of our main jobs is to figure out what things 'drive us crazy' and what things 'make us smile'.  Once you know that, then zero-ing in on the best speaker for you becomes much simpler.

[Early B.]

There are excellent OB speakers and excellent box speakers.  Some people have a strong preference for one, some people have a strong preference for the other.  Me, I'm an OB person in general.  But I also recognize that box speakers present music in a way that OB doesn't, and some people prefer that. 

Yeah, you gotta figure out what you want. I have a mixture -- OB subs with the midrange, horn tweeter, and rear-firing tweeter in a box. The opposing tweeters provide the spaciousness of an OB tweeter. I went with a box up top because I wanted a gut-punching midrange.   

I would characterize open baffle sound as, "polite." OB bass, for instance, isn't as impactful, but it sure as hell sounds a lot better than box subs. The tradeoff is you'll need multiple OB drivers to get the same impact as a box sub. 

[Tyson]

Yeah, you gotta figure out what you want. I have a mixture -- OB subs with the midrange, horn tweeter, and rear-firing tweeter in a box. The opposing tweeters provide the spaciousness of an OB tweeter. I went with a box up top because I wanted a gut-punching midrange.   

I would characterize open baffle sound as, "polite." OB bass, for instance, isn't as impactful, but it sure as hell sounds a lot better than box subs. The tradeoff is you'll need multiple OB drivers to get the same impact as a box sub. 

Agreed, sound produced by a box is very much directed toward you (as the listener), while OB happens equally behind the speakers as it does in front of the speakers.  This causes the sound to be perceived as happening 'over there' and it's definitely less propulsive and percussive.  On the other hand, the soundstage and imaging just breaks free from an OB speaker and floats in a massive sound field with OB that a box speaker cannot really touch. 

Which version will a particular person prefer?  Hard to say.  Best to try out both and see what you like. 

[planet10]

On the other hand, the soundstage and imaging just breaks free from an OB speaker and floats in a massive sound field with OB that a box speaker cannot really touch. 

If a speaker i build does not fo that, i consider it failed. They have been mostly boxes. Some of the OB builds did not do as well, one being one of the "boxiest” sounding loudspeakers ever in my experience.

So another generalization that has to do with implementation is more important than theory.

dave

[Tyson]

If a speaker i build does not fo that, i consider it failed. They have been mostly boxes. Some of the OB builds did not do as well, one being one of the "boxiest” sounding loudspeakers ever in my experience.

So another generalization that has to do with implementation is more important than theory.

dave

Well sure there's plenty of sucky speakers out there that don't image well, both OB and box.  But given a good design of each, these are my observations.