[TONEPUB]

Hi.
You can't get too much with one grand budget for a decent phonostage.

More you audition more you may not be too happy with what you've got regardless the price you paid for.

Take the example of my one-of-a-kind "crazy" sonic demand - fast, snappy, transparent, detail & musical sound. I still can't find any brandname phonostages that fit the huge shoes above perfectly, that include the USD76,000 Audio Note Japan tube phono-preamp - the world most expensive phono-preamp, which I auditioned in detail in its sole regional distributor studio only last January.

So I decided to design-build one that can deliver my "crazy" tonal taste without mortgaging my house to pay for one. Thanks goodness, I think I am getting there.

c-J

So, you've built the world's best phono stage...

Sorry, having a hard time swallowing that one.

[brooklyn]

So I ordered a Graham Slee ERA GOLD MK V demo from Music Direct.... A bit of a left turn, but at least I can listen and return if needed! If this doesn't work out I'll order the Grado PH-1 for demo. Off to the races!

I've been using that phono stage for about a year now, while I don't have to much experience with hi quality phono stages the Graham Slee sounds clean, dynamic and dead quite in my system. I have it paired up with Ortofon 2M Black cartridge on a VPI Scout. It takes a little while after you plug it in before it will reach its full potential.   

[JohnR]

So, you've built the world's best phono stage...

Sorry, having a hard time swallowing that one.

In fairness to cheap-Jack, it has to be pointed out that he didn't say he is building the world's best phono stage, nor did he say that he's accomplished his personal goal.

[S Clark]

I have used the Cambridge 640P at about $100 used and got good value, upgraded caps for another $40 for an even better value, picked up a used Vista which was even better, then got antoher Cambridge with new caps and op amps ( which still is not quite what the Vista is), and finally spent the bucks and got a Dodde.  There is no comparison . The Dodd is clearly more detailed, more musical, and just more enjoyable. 

Scott

[Wayner]

Certainly, cost is no guarantee that the phono pre will have any better performance then the next unit selling for XXX less. And not to state the obvious, but choosing one depends on the needs. Some offer capacitive/resistive loading, others offer MC options for the really low output cartridges (then you are paying for a step-up transformer that you may not need).

Finally, can the phono preamp accurately re-scribe the RIAA curve, does it have the headroom for increased dynamic range found in todays recordings.

I have a separate tubed phono pre that is very fast and dynamic, with a slightly warm sound (as one might expect), while the solid state offers less warmth, but slam dunks the RIAA and dynamics in spades.

The short end of this stick suggests that you do lots of research and find one that seems to fit the budget and the needs, then find a seller that will let you return it if it doesn't live up to the claims or your expectations.

The correct phono stage may have a huge effect on the success of your system, so finding one that works and is synergistic with the rest of your system may take a couple of swings and misses before you make the hit.....

Wayner

[plakey]

Hi all, thanks for continuing the thread! I've auditioned the Graham Slee Era Gold which I liked, but found a tad analytic. It is, however, the quietest stage I have yet to hear. Banishes all surface noise! It's a bit strange... like magic.

I'm now going to audition the Grado for a compare. Half the fun is the search...

[jarcher]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in as I was in the same situation, albeit my budget was more around $500.

I'd seriously disagree w/ the one previous person who said you can't get anything decent under $1K.

And of course my conclusion is going to be what I have at the moment, but for good reason..........

Some new that you may be aware of already that are well regarded:

Solid State:
Soundsmith MMP's for MM's / $400 - $500
Creek OBH-18 MM / $400

Tube:
Project Tube Box / $450 - $750
Jolida JD9 / $500

These were on my short list, and for pure MM would probably have gotten the Soundsmith, or otherwise the Jolida, which is highly rated : some times you can even find them used for less.

BUT..........I ended up going the used route because I wanted something more "high end".  Ended up getting a Sonic Frontiers SFP-1 Signature tube phone preamp for only $400 - but two days later did need to have the caps on the power supply changed, and was in it for another $200.  Don't think that's a typical situation - and the one I got I don't think had been used in many years. 

Typical asking prices are around $900, probably less for a non-signature.  These were like $1800 new - albeit back in the mid 90's and was a Stereophile Class B component. 

Coming from a Rega MM phono stage - but also having owned a Creek - I was astounded the difference a good phone preamp can make.

Sonic Frontiers in my opinion just don't seem to have the cache of an Audio Research, but the build quality & the sound quality are without reproach - and aside from any competent tube tech, you can even send them up to Canada to the ex-SF folks at parts connexion to fix or mod them. 

For more info: http://archive.anthemav.com/OldSitev1/pages/sfp1.html

There's one on audiogon at the moment w/ extensive mod's for $1,150 and another for $950. I'd probably go for for the modded one and offer under $1K as this one may be more likely to have updated power supply caps.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/phono-sonic-frontiers-sfp-1-signature-phono-stage-with-expensive-upgrades-2012-08-18-preamplifiers-15065-natrona-pa

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/phono-sonic-frontiers-sfp-1-signature-tube-phono-stage-2012-09-02-preamplifiers-11720

Look at photos on google & you'll see the parts quality is peerless.  MIT caps / Kimber wiring / etc / etc. 

If you want a more conventional name, then an earlier Audio Research phone preamp like a PH3 would probably be good - particularly as someone else suggested, its always a good insurance policy to go w/ a big name in case you don't like & want to re-sell. Personally I don't like what the AR hybrid design does to the mid-range, but otherwise they seem to be a safe bet.

I think either the Sonic Frontiers or the Audio Research used is likely to top anything new under a grand - and even my dealer said I would be happier w/ my SF than buying a Soundsmith from him.

Happy hunting!

[plakey]

Wow! This is a great cache of information. I will certainly think long and hard about this... thank you again.

[neobop]

Hi all, thanks for continuing the thread! I've auditioned the Graham Slee Era Gold which I liked, but found a tad analytic. It is, however, the quietest stage I have yet to hear. Banishes all surface noise! It's a bit strange... like magic.

I'm now going to audition the Grado for a compare. Half the fun is the search...

In reading this thread I couldn't help wondering what kind of phono stage you're using now.   We know that you have a Grado Platinum (HO), but that's all we know.  What kind of table/arm sports this Grado?  Any other carts?  Line stage?

I never heard the Era Gold, but I suspect it's a very good piece.  According to Fremer it has a very long break-in.  A "tad analytic" isn't exactly damning for a piece not yet broken-in.  Perhaps different cables or more hrs would cure this.  Maybe a used Simaudio Moon LP5.3 would fill the bill.
http://www.lpgear.com/EraGoldMkV.pdf
http://www.stereophile.com/phonopreamps/307sim/index.html

I'm not saying you made a mistake.  Even after you try some others, and if you decide you liked the Era Gold, maybe you could find a used one.  There are a ton of phono stages new/used for < $1K.  Trying them is the right approach IMO, but I have the feeling that the Era Gold didn't get a fair shake.  Maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't really know.  I'm asking about the rest of your record player and associated stuff, out of curiosity mostly, but also a reality check.  Grados are very arm sensitive. What are you running?  Planning on keeping the Grado for the forseeable future?  These questions bring up the possibility that your money might be better spent elsewhere at this time, although I wouldn't presume to say that is the case.
neo

[plakey]

As with everything, it's complicated. I did like the ERA GOLD, but needed to get it back to Music Direct under the 30 days. I might just buy it back again once I've heard a few more pieces. It's nice to have a baseline. And I'm sure that it would bloom and open up if I had it in my system for a lot longer... again, I might just return once I hear a few more.

My "current" phono stage is dead; it was in my Meridian preamp (from the early 1990s). My table is a Basis Audio 1400; arm Basis-branded Rega. Cables are Black Cat Morpheus.

I am essentially on my last leg of this current system, which I put together in the 90s and early 2000s. I am going to set up an entirely new system sometime in the next year. But I want to listed to records, thus the $500-$1000 phono stage for the time being... it will all change in a year.

[neobop]

As with everything, it's complicated. I did like the ERA GOLD, but needed to get it back to Music Direct under the 30 days. I might just buy it back again once I've heard a few more pieces. It's nice to have a baseline. And I'm sure that it would bloom and open up if I had it in my system for a lot longer... again, I might just return once I hear a few more.

My "current" phono stage is dead; it was in my Meridian preamp (from the early 1990s). My table is a Basis Audio 1400; arm Basis-branded Rega. Cables are Black Cat Morpheus.

I am essentially on my last leg of this current system, which I put together in the 90s and early 2000s. I am going to set up an entirely new system sometime in the next year. But I want to listed to records, thus the $500-$1000 phono stage for the time being... it will all change in a year.

That dispels speculation about being a newbie.

Interesting proposition - entirely new system - does that include the record player and speakers, or just the electronics?

It seems like the Grado phono stage is one of those controversial pieces that inspire strong reactions both positive and negative.  Something about RIAA EQ application is claimed to be revolutionary.  They don't seem to publish the specs, but I think gain can be switched to a max of 56dB.  This would be OK for a LOMC with a healthy output, but at 47K ?  That's the recommendation for LO Grados.  There's probably a test report somewhere on the web.

Please let us know about further explorations.  The prospect of replacing an entire system is interesting to say the least. 
neo

[plakey]

Well, yes, I'm note quite a newbie. I've been an audiophile for about 20 years. But I don't buy a lot of gear...

As for the new system, perhaps I should start a new thread... "My New System"! Leben has been decided on, and will choose between Harbeth, DaVore, and Zu speakers. I'll probably mate the Leben with the Leben phono pre. I'm still up in the air about my new analog front end... this one will move to my "b" system. And I'm always searching for a good sounding DAC...