[medium jim]

May I suggest another DIY to mate with the Ncores, the Bottlehead Foreplay III.  They show up every now and then on agon for a few hundred and are simply the best dollar for dollar line stage pre out there.

Jim

[genjamon]

Thanks!

[doug s.]

jim, while i disagree that professional audio journalists are unbiased as a class, i actually do agree w/much of what you say - hobbyists can have their own set of biases.

but, what i have seen, following the comments of those who have taken jason up on his generous offer, are, for the most part, comments from folks who don't have a "dog in this", as you say - they are simply hobbyists who auditioned something they didn't own.  yes, quite a few people ended up buying the ncores after hearing them.  but that doesn't mean they had any dog in this beforehand.  and, there are some people on the fence as to whether they wanna buy them, and others who have no interest in buying them.

i am sure that, some time down the road, professional audio journalists will have their say; and i suspect that their reactions will be similar to the hobbyists - some will buy them, others will be on the fence, others won't want them.

doug s.

[cab]

May I suggest another DIY to mate with the Ncores, the Bottlehead Foreplay III.  They show up every now and then on agon for a few hundred and are simply the best dollar for dollar line stage pre out there.

Jim

No longer available as a kit.

[medium jim]

doug s:

Probably so.  It would have been nice if someone I knew had been one if the participants as I would understand their motivation with respect to the review they would have penned.

I have no doubt that they are wonderful amps based on the reviews.  One day I will know if they might be for me.

Jim

[Andre2]

This thread has totally run its course. 

[medium jim]

This thread has totally run its course.

Maybe, maybe not.   I'm still a bottlehead, and they would have to sound better than what I already have, which will not be easy to do.

Jim

[doug s.]

jim, agreed that these are amps i also want to sample.  but, i didn't get in on jason's offer because my present living situation is not conducive to doing a proper ewaluation.  i can't even properly appreciate/ewaluate some of the amps and speakers i already own - there is simply not enough room to easily move things around.    i hope to be moving in about a year; things should change then.  meanwhile, at least the space, at ~18x38, is large enough so that what i have in place sounds good.   

doug s.

[medium jim]

jim, agreed that these are amps i also want to sample.  but, i didn't get in on jason's offer because my present living situation is not conducive to doing a proper ewaluation.  i can't even properly appreciate/ewaluate some of the amps and speakers i already own - there is simply not enough room to easily move things around.    i hope to be moving in about a year; things should change then.  meanwhile, at least the space, at ~18x38, is large enough so that what i have in place sounds good.   

doug s.

Doug:

I envy you, I only have a 16x15 room for listening...I have to think that anything that garners so much fuss has to either be the biggest con or is good...but good to one may not be to another...as you often say, ymmv. 

Jim

[jackman]

This thread has totally run its course.

Don't confuse a couple guys getting sidetracked with a thread running its course...unless you are the self-appointed arbiter of thread usefulness or vitality.

If you don't like the discussion, you have the option to stay out of it. As long as people play nice, and don"t break the rules or say things that may offend our more sensitive members, I hope this thread stays open.  It has quickly become one of the most popular threads in the Ncore circle.

[medium jim]

No longer available as a kit.

That is why I pointed him to aGon to find one....there are two on their right now.

Jim

P.S. Eventhough the ones on aGon are already built, there is still a lot of room for modifications....

[Occam]

........
I have no doubt that they are wonderful amps based on the reviews.  One day I will know if they might be for me.

Jim

Its not for you. Leastwise if your present systems are any indication of your preferences.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=1723

System overview
A pair of VAC Marantz Model 9 Reissues with NOS Mullards XF2's and 1960's Amperex Gold Pin 6922 PQ's in the line stage; a 1961 McIntosh MX-110 Preamp/Tuner that has been serviced and realligned with some tweaks, a Marantz CDP 38 that has been highly modified by Ah! Tjoeb (has a pair of Siemens E188CC Pinch Waist tubes in the buffer stage; a pair of B&W ASW300 Subs; a pair of restored Magnepan MG 2.5rt's. I'm using AQ Gibralter Cables from the amps to the subs and Transparent Music Wave Super's from the subs to a special designed Hi Pass Module and then Kimber 8TC from there to the speakers. I have a pair of Morrow MA1's from the amps to the pre (great IC's at any price) and a Transparent Music Link + IC's from the CDP to the Pre.

I'd think your present system is an absolute hoot, a tremendously enjoyable, emotionally engaging, 'big' sound, with technicolor, better than real soundstaging.  But given your present system [ this goes double for your 'Plan 2' smaller system ] with a change to a Ncore for power amplification is going to make you run out of the room. This is not a criticism of your present system, but rather an obvious observation. My personal issue with the Ncore 400 is its lack of 'warmth' and have spent substantial time dealing with that specific issue. You will find the Ncore a disaster when slotted in for your Marantz 9s or Dynaco 70.

After reading all of the amatuer reviews of the Ncore, if you need Steven Stone to tell you what a poor fit its would be in your system, you simply don't know your own system and preferences. The uber resolving Ncore is simply not your cuppa. YMWNV

Would you please stop crapping all over this thread, there is NOTHING for you here. Just enjoy your system(s) that you've obviously spend much time, effort and resources optimizing to your personal preferences.

FWIW,
Paul

PS - the Foreplay III isn't a particularly good choice as a front end for the Ncore, if one intends to preserve its very high S/N ratio. Its purported 90db measure is 20db lower that my tubed CAT SL-1 at the same 2v output, and I find the CAT's noise borderline.

[cab]

That is why I pointed him to aGon to find one....there are two on their right now.

Jim

P.S. Eventhough the ones on aGon are already built, there is still a lot of room for modifications....

Have you built one yourself?

[jackman]

Good post, Paul.  I still can't figure out why people feel the need to comment and speculate on the performance of the Ncore, and even which components would mesh with it, without ever having heard it. It's as bad as the clowns who argued about how great it sounded, and speculated about it being a game changer...before they even heard it.

Blindly speculating about how this amp sounds, without any basis in reality or direct experience is not useful. It amazes me that so many people who have never heard this amp are so willing to invest so much time talking about it, and arguing about it. That is just silly.

[medium jim]

Paul:

Wow, so much vitriol and anger.  Sorry that I have hit a nerve. My system has many of the virtues you proclaimed it to have. While it is an amazingly good system it isn't the world stopper and I'm always looking...

The Bottlehead Foreplay is designed to be easily modified (as is the case with mine) and is dead quiet.

Please point out to where I have offered an opinion that is negative of the NCore within this thread?  Yet you choose to diminish the idea of another AC Member whom I suggested to audition the Ncores, Steven Stone, who has over 30 years of experience writing reviews and is as fair as they come.  BTW, he's also a hobbyist. 

No I don't need anyone to tell me what I like or not, but it never hurts to get a full and fair concensus.

Again, accept my apologies if I have somehow offended you or your sensibilities.

Jim

[sts9fan]

I will support Paul's post. The FP3 is quite noisy. I built one and it was unuseable with a Odyssey Khartago which has 32db of gain. The tube rush was just too much. I would suggest a high quality SS amp. I bet the W4S pre would be a great match.

[cab]

Good post, Paul.  I still can't figure out why people feel the need to comment and speculate on the performance of the Ncore, and even which components would mesh with it, without ever having heard it. It's as bad as the clowns who argued about how great it sounded, and speculated about it being a game changer...before they even heard it.

Blindly speculating about how this amp sounds, without any basis in reality or direct experience is not useful. It amazes me that so many people who have never heard this amp are so willing to invest so much time talking about it, and arguing about it. That is just silly.

Now I know I have read that exact same comment before somewhere in this thread and in others in the ncore forum.....Oh, that's right, I wrote it, about 5 or 6 times.....and got nothing but noise in response....

If I didn't know better Jackman, I would swear you have been out behind the woodshed nipping on some kool-aid.....

[medium jim]

Jackman:

Isn't the point of any thread is to bring folks in?  Isn't the point of the tour to spread the word?  To limit it to only the very few who have heard them would be ridiculous.  To offer opinions on how they sound would be crazy if you didn't actually hear them.  To the best of my knowledge, I haven't commented on how they sound, only how other class d amps have.

Make the call to ban anyone who hasn't heard them from posting and I will honor it.

Jim

[rollo]

   Thanks guys I have a little better understanding of the amps  general character now. In the near future I wil have a chance to compare the Arion HS 500 hybrid class "D" amps [ which recently replaced our custom Cyber 211 with NOS RCA tubes ] to the N-Core. Should be a learning experience and some fun to boot.



charles

[jackman]

I don't want anyone banned!  It's just hard for me to understand how you could devote so much energy to something you have never heard.  Maybe it would be more useful to devote your time to hearing these amps. You did suggest the Foreplay preamp and I'm not sure I understand how you could do this without ever having heard the Ncore.

That's all, no big deal and I don't want to see you or anyone in this thread banned.

Thanks

J