[Rclark]

 Can you just answer the question without going into the usual hysterics?

[cab]

Cab,

Maybe you are right. After all, you have a heavy hitter like Rclark backing you up with his measured, well thought,  and objective views  This amp is so great, Rclark has been involved in several heated discussions and arguments, defending the amp, extolling its virtues, and making bold predictions - despite the fact that he has never heard it.  His "review" was written long ago and I'm sure he is just waiting to get the amp in house long enough to officially bust the seal on a fresh tin of Kool-Aid. Drink up!

Rclark, I don't need Xanax.  Whenever I feel a bit down, I can always rely on the words of wisdom you spew...er, graciously share with the fortunate people of AC to bring a smile to my face. Works every time.

Cheers

Jack

Seems a few little boys get a kick out of beating up on RClark by poking at his favorite toy.

So the guy is irrationally exuberant. BFD. Not everyone is a jaded cynic. He's not hurting anyone. Yet the bullying continues....

I tend to place more weight on the 50 or so agreeing opinions I have read in serious threads rather than 2-3 dissenting ones posted under a "Kool-Aid drinking Fanboy" thread. And I put the most weight of all on my own experience. Everyone is indeed entitled to their own opinion. I don't consider any opinion valid if it isn't based on personal experience, and those that are, certainly are open to logical analysis. If people can't handle having their beliefs questioned, they should perhaps be a bit more guarded in sharing them in an open forum.

[wushuliu]

Rclark and cab, here's an idea, maybe DON'T keep posting in a thread that is specifically for trying to maintain a discussion devoid of your respective opinions. I mean come on guys, really? Let's be honest this thread is pretty much a polite attempt to avoid you, but you show up all the same. Just let the thread be. You both seem like otherwise reasonable people. If you've got a *thread* on a forum calling you a kool-aid drinking fanboy you know, i don't know, maybe it's time to reassess your approach. IF you feel unfairly set upon, then take the high road and move on. Win-win for everybody.

[medium jim]

Most of the reviews are generated after only having auditioning them for a few days.  In my over 40 years of listening to music, I can honestly say that it takes more than a few days to really understand what you are hearing.

This is precisely why most professional reviewers listen to the item they're reviewing for at least a week before putting to pen their comments and opinions.

I can also say that in all of my years, never has one item caused so much rancor, but apparently only on the AC and the DIY forum.  The other audiophile based forums have been spared.

TAS asked several prominent amp designers their opinions a few issues back and most thought that Class D hadn't come of age yet.  Many cited inherent flaws with switching amps that may never be overcome. 

Jim

[jackman]

Hey Cab,
I wasn't bullying anyone. Rclark stuck his nose in, and needed to get slapped down for posting gibberish and nonsense.  Also, some might say the bullies are the ones who badger or question anyone who has something less than glowingly positive to say about the Ncore.  People like...let me see...oh, you for instance. 

You probably don't even realize you are doing it but you only seem to question people who have less than positive things to say about the Ncore.  When they prefer another amp to the Ncore, you question their system or objectivity, but when they like it a lot, it's obviously because they have refined taste and a perfect system, and you give them a pass.  This is why I started the Kool-Aid thread.

It is possible people have different opinions than you and I.  People even change their mind about what sounds good or what tastes good. You know what they say, variety is the spice of life.  Maybe that's why they make so many darn delicious flavors of Kool-Aid. 

Drink it up!



J

[cab]

Look through all the ncore threads and you will find the same 3-4 people posting the same blah blah blah, though it seems none of them have actually heard it yet...rubberneckers? bullies? what?

It is only natural to ponder the negative results mentioned by a few in the face of so many positive experiences. Who questions the results that agree with one's own?

You started the Kool-Aid thread because you think you are funny and wanted to be provocative. Your replies to me are filled with sarcasm and put-downs, the lowest form of humor.

Again, point me to where exactly I said people can't have differing opinions. Or better still, offer something of value by way of explaining why you think the experiences of the few posters here don't agree with the vastly greater number of those that have posted their opinions?

[wushuliu]

Oh, look, here come the rest of the usual suspects, always adding their $0.02 every time the ncore is a topic! Look through all the ncore threads and you will find the same 3-4 people posting the same blah blah blah, though it seems none of them have actually heard it yet...Like rubberneckers at an accident scene...Or bullies in the playground.

It is only natural to ponder the negative results mentioned by a few in the face of so many positive experiences. Who questions the results that agree with one's own?

You started the Kool-Aid thread because you think you are funny and wanted to be provocative. Your replies to me are filled with sarcasm and put-downs, the lowest form of humor.

Again, point me to where exactly I said people can't have differing opinions. Or better still, offer something of value by way of explaining why you think the experiences of the few posters here don't agree with the vastly greater number of those that have posted their opinions?

Perhaps you should slap yourself down for all the gibberish and nonsense you seem to have in inexhaustible supply.

now you're just trolling.

[cab]

Most of the reviews are generated after only having auditioning them for a few days.  In my over 40 years of listening to music, I can honestly say that it takes more than a few days to really understand what you are hearing.

This is precisely why most professional reviewers listen to the item they're reviewing for at least a week before putting to pen their comments and opinions.

I can also say that in all of my years, never has one item caused so much rancor, but apparently only on the AC and the DIY forum.  The other audiophile based forums have been spared.

TAS asked several prominent amp designers their opinions a few issues back and most thought that Class D hadn't come of age yet.  Many cited inherent flaws with switching amps that may never be overcome. 

Jim

No, most of the reviews are on a different forum and have been generated by people that actually own the product, have built the product, and have compared the product.

Class d hasn't come of age yet? Wake up Rip! Try listening to the state of the art to experience first hand what is possible instead of reading about what is not.

[cab]

now you're just trolling.

This whole thread is a troll....

[wushuliu]

This whole thread is a troll....

Then...don't feed it.

[hifial]

medium jim, and a few others,TAS issue is not several issues back but several years back. The amp designers all had a vested interest in their own designs and could hardly be called objective. Also what is stated as imposable or inherent flaws today does not mean that it will be tomorrow. If that was the case the earth would still be flat, the sun would orbit the earth, man would not fly and reach the moon to name a few. I have no problem with opposing listening impressions of the Ncore. As I have stated before we all will have different likes. But I do not think cab is wrong and asking if it could be something else in the system chain that might be the cause. That would be a reasonable question if it was any type of equipment change. And finally I find it most interesting that most, but not all, of the biggest critics on this thread were also the biggest Fanboys of class A-A/B and the biggest critics of class D on an early thread here on AC. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105826.msg1082555#msg1082555

I am not going to get into a debate, this is just my observations, take it or leave it.

[medium jim]

Cab:

What exactly is your buy in to the Ncores.  I don't mean that you own them, but why do feel so compelled to bully each and everyone who presents a different view or opinion of them?

It is clear that you are impressed by them, so why don't you just relish that fact and move on.  Tell you what, if you stop posting about them, so will I.  Talk about a total win/win.  Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done to thwart Mr. Clark.

Jim

[wushuliu]

medium jim, and a few others,TAS issue is not several issues back but several years back. The amp designers all had a vested interest in their own designs and could hardly be called objective. Also what is stated as imposable or inherent flaws today does not mean that it will be tomorrow. If that was the case the earth would still be flat, the sun would orbit the earth, man would not fly and reach the moon to name a few. I have no problem with opposing listening impressions of the Ncore. As I have stated before we all will have different likes. But I do not think cab is wrong and asking if it could be something else in the system chain that might be the cause. That would be a reasonable question if it was any type of equipment change. And finally I find it most interesting that most, but not all, of the biggest critics on this thread were also the biggest Fanboys of class A-A/B and the biggest critics of class D on an early thread here on AC. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105826.msg1082555#msg1082555

I am not going to get into a debate, this is just my observations, take it or leave it.

I find it most interesting people who make accusations - but are 'not going to get into a debate'.

[medium jim]

hifial:

Wrong, the May/June 2012 TAS was about amps and several amp designers chimed in about the state of Class D.  I good read indeed.

Jim

[cab]

I find it most interesting people who make accusations - but are 'not going to get into a debate'.

Would this be considered a troll?

[cab]

hifial:

Wrong, the May/June 2012 TAS was about amps and several amp designers chimed in about the state of Class D.  I good read indeed.

Jim

Does this statement:

"The amp designers all had a vested interest in their own designs and could hardly be called objective."

No longer hold true?

I guess PS Audio, Rowland, Theta, Bel Canto, and a whole host of others weren't party to the discussion....

[wushuliu]

Would this be considered a troll?

You know you're trolling, bro. You seem reasonable enough at diyaudio when within your element, but seem to relish getting into people's faces interweb-style on this forum. You see Jtwrace getting in a huff over here?

[medium jim]

cab:

Jeff Rowland was one of the amp designers and he also panned them.

Jim

[cab]

Cab:

What exactly is your buy in to the Ncores.  I don't mean that you own them, but why do feel so compelled to bully each and everyone who presents a different view or opinion of them?

It is clear that you are impressed by them, so why don't you just relish that fact and move on.  Tell you what, if you stop posting about them, so will I.  Talk about a total win/win.  Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done to thwart Mr. Clark.

Jim

"bully each and everyone who presents a different view or opinion of them?" Seriously? No, really? Bullied each and every one? Usually I only "slapp(ed) down (those) posting gibberish and nonsense."

See, I have a legitimate basis for posting in ncore threads: I have built them, I have listened to them for many hours, and I have compared them to other amps. Then there are others, such as yourself, that see fit, despite the fact that you have never even heard them, and know little to nothing of their technical workings,bto chime in every chance you get and make disparaging remarks about something you have no direct experience with. You ARE the yang to RClark's ying! He is illogically positive, and you are illogically negative...

[wushuliu]

Someone should buy Jackman a "Jump to Conclusions Matt"

I'll let you slide on this one. Too easy...