[MichaelHiFi]

Man, those are looking saaaaweeet. 

Total pro look job.

Now I'm getting inspired for another build. Wish I knew how to use all those tools....

[lacro]

Man, those are looking saaaaweeet. 

Total pro look job.

Now I'm getting inspired for another build. Wish I knew how to use all those tools....

 Michael,
 I am not sure your responding to the right thread? I am just an average hacker trying to build a pair of speakers. The epoxy finish is nothing more than a clear; thick primer over raw MDF. These boxes will eventually be painted. I learned a long time ago, "finish is everything" No matter how good something looks at different stages, the final finish is all that is actually seen by others. If you want true building/finish inspiration, look at Peter J's work

Larry

[lacro]

 I started on my stands, and began sanding the main boxes...


Flat Feet for standing box off the table for painting.



Sanding 2nd coat of epoxy:



One box sanded, other waiting:



Sand trap glued in:



Pipe for threaded rod:



Staining MDF with India Ink:





1/2" Roundover:


Ink works good as stain on MDF:





Larry

[Danny Richie]

Nice looking stands.   

[Captainhemo]

Looking really good Larry.  Neat to try something  different with the India Ink.
Have you decied how you are finishing the  cabinets yet ?

-jay

[lacro]

Looking really good Larry.  Neat to try something  different with the India Ink.
Have you decied how you are finishing the  cabinets yet ?

-jay

 Jay,
 The India ink really covers the MDF amazingly well. The little 1.5 oz. bottle covered all the MDF for the stands. I picked up another bottle to give it one more go, mainly to see if it looks any different, not because the first coated didn't cover well. AC Moore has coupon sales almost every week, and I got both bottles at 40 & 50% off, about $2.50 a bottle so if it don't work well, I'm not out much.

 I am trying some epoxy pigmented with graphite powder plus a little black epoxy pigment on some pieces of the stand to see how it comes out. I would like to try this method on the speaker boxes. If I can get a good black uniform color on the boxes, I may be able to just finish with a clear coat of some sort.
This is what I will be doing on the stands for sure, but I was able to use the India ink on them first, so my chances are better with the stands using this method.

 In any case the speakers and stands will be BLACK (although I still like my idea of red!). Even if things don't work out with my experiment, I can still paint everything black, red, whatever

 I am running out of warm enough weather (here in late Sept.) to be able to try spray painting, either rattle can or with my little touch-up gun and my low CFM compressor. I did have good luck with it on my "Boom Box" which I covered with 6 coats of marine varnish, 5 brushed, and the last one sprayed with the touch-up gun. It came our quite good.  If the weather won't cooperate, I may have to resort to the Roll & Tip paint method, and maybe finish with a wet sanding regiment up to 1500-2000 grit and finish with buffing, but I want to avoid this if I can.

Larry

 

[Captainhemo]

Funny you mention the red..... I'm thinking of  doing a set of  X LS for my niece's room.   If I do them,  theu'll have to be finished in red.

I'm anxious to see  how your finish on  the speakers turns out,  sounds interesting  !!

[lacro]

I put 2 coats of India ink on all the stand parts, and experimented with epoxy with graphite powder, and black epoxy colorant. The epoxy was thinned slightly with lacquer thinner for deep penetration.
 
 After light sanding the epoxy/graphite coating gets really slippery , and turns a gunmetal gray.
I applied a second coat of epoxy, but this time I only used the black colorant. I am trying to see if I can get a grayish tint to the black similar to vintage Paradigm speakers. I think they referred to it as "Black Ash"

 The goal here is to come up with a color I like by tinting the epoxy, and finishing with a clear coat of some type, maybe automotive clearcoat. The color will be buried in the epoxy, and the clearcoat will be the sheen I desire plus protect the epoxy from UV which is a must.

 I am trying this on the stands first. If it works I will try it on the speakers. If it doesn't work out the way I want, I can just paint everything. Nothing is lost but time, as the epoxy will help seal the seams from showing, and fill any divots or gaps. Plus, coloring the MDF with India ink and tinting the epoxy will help prevent any future dings that may happen from showing the raw MDF.

The speaker stand top panel on the left has the epoxy/graphite/black colorant on it. The panel on the right has just India ink applied. The camera flash makes the gray color much more pronounced than it really is. The orange peel effect visible in the first coat of epoxy (thinned) will get buried in subsequent coats (not thinned).



The first seal coat of thinned epoxy applied to the stands. This coat is tinted with just the epoxy black colorant, no graphite. Note how the edges suck the epoxy in more than the flat surfaces.



I applied the thinned/tinted black epoxy to all the stand parts. The panel on the left which is getting the second coat of epoxy is the only one with the graphite in the first coat. Again the flash is making it look different than it does in normal light. The grayish tint is showing through this panel. The others don't have the graphite, and only have one coat of epoxy.



Larry..

[lacro]

I put on the second coat of tinted epoxy on the stands. Also, I decided to try to color the speaker cabinets black using the tinted epoxy, but it didn't do much to color them. Epoxy colorant is not completely opaque. It works best over an already colored surface such as the stands that were stained with India ink.
 I added graphite powder to the colorant tinted epoxy, and it covered the speaker cabinets really good for the first coat.

 This is the second coat of tinted epoxy on a stand pedestal This coat is filling the MDF edges well.
 


Before applying the tinted epoxy.



After...The black epoxy covers pretty good over the brown under color on the speakers



The strong light of the camera flash reveals thin spots unseen during application.



Here's a similar angle, but with less flash. Everything looks covered. Black is a difficult color to work with



Larry...

[Peter J]

Larry, I'm following your finishing with interest. My experience with epoxies is mostly as glue, although I have done a little laminating, both epoxy and polyester resins. Should provide a really tough exterior, no?

Is the graphite powder standard fare for coloring epoxy, I've never used it for anything but a dry lubricant. Pencils too, I guess

[lacro]

Larry, I'm following your finishing with interest. My experience with epoxies is mostly as glue, although I have done a little laminating, both epoxy and polyester resins. Should provide a really tough exterior, no?

Is the graphite powder standard fare for coloring epoxy, I've never used it for anything but a dry lubricant. Pencils too, I guess

Peter,
 Yes...graphite is commonly used to color epoxy black. There are other methods as well. I have a colorant made to color epoxy or polyester resin black, but I have never been satisfied with it's ability to hide. This is my first try with graphite. It sure is a lot more opaque than the epoxy colorant. However, sanding makes it look gunmetal gray. Adding just the colorant on the next coats has brought it back to a nice black.
 I think using India ink to stain the MDF, and using clear epoxy without any color or graphite would seal the MDF, especially the seams, and bury a nice jet black color under the epoxy. Finish with whatever clear you choose (not lacquer) IMO/ would give a nice durable finish.
 
I am not sure how this will turn out, but I can always paint everything if needed.


Here's a scrap wood strip panel that is glassed/epoxied. I tried a test with just the colorant added to the epoxy shown on the left. I then added graphite to the epoxy, shown on the right. The graphite has much better hiding ability.

 

[Peter J]

I've used colorant but never black and didn't know about graphite.

 Here's what I'm thinkin'; dye cabs black or perhaps grey, then 2 or 3 coats graphite loaded epoxy. Sand last coat to reveal the graphite and clear coat on top, theoretically leaving a graphite grey, sorta kinda metallic look.

Do you think think that would look good or better off painting metallic grey?

Always looking for something new and interesting.

P

[lacro]

I've used colorant but never black and didn't know about graphite.

 Here's what I'm thinkin'; dye cabs black or perhaps grey, then 2 or 3 coats graphite loaded epoxy. Sand last coat to reveal the graphite and clear coat on top, theoretically leaving a graphite grey, sorta kinda metallic look.

Do you think think that would look good or better off painting metallic grey?

Always looking for something new and interesting.

P

 That's kind of where I am going with the boxes, "the graphite look". The stands will stay black, probably finished in satin clear. My concern is the gray on the boxes won't be uniform. I hate to use my speaker cabinets for the experiment. I should do some testing first. There are probably other powders that might get closer to a desirable gray. I wonder if powder coating powder would work for an epoxy colorant?
 A gray aniline dye on the MDF might be better than the black ink to bring out the grayish Graphite
 I will probably do 3 coats containing the graphite, sanding some between each one. The last one will get a good sanding to try and bring out a uniform grayish color.

Larry

[Captainhemo]

I like what y9u are doing, it's going to look great 

[lacro]

I have been trying to get my colored epoxy coats thick enough that I won't sand through showing the brown MDF, but it's been a struggle on the speaker boxes. The stands are working out much better because I stained the raw MDF with India Ink before applying the epoxy. The speakers were sealed with epoxy, and then more epoxy coats with graphite and epoxy black colorant were applied.

 During the sanding I always seem to sand through a spot here and there. I use a sharpie pen to cover the spot and apply more colored epoxy, but I keep sanding through somewhere on the boxes. I am not sanding all the way to raw MDF, just to the uncolored epoxy undercoats.

 I am determined to just use clear coat of some type over the black colored epoxy, and not have to resort to black paint. Also, I must resort to a brush type of clear coat as the weather window for spraying has probably gone by. Sooo... I am open to suggestions for a good tried and true brush type "clear coat" product that will work over epoxy.

 I would prefer one that I can apply multiple coats in one day without sanding or very minimal sanding required between coats. I know brushing lacquer would probably be a good choice, but lacquer and epoxy don't place nice. However, there may be a transition clear coating that would allow the use of brushing lacquer. I am not fond of water based coatings, but I am open to suggestions.

 My state has very strict VOC requirements for coatings, so local availability of high VOC clear coatings may be a problem.

Any suggestions appreciated....


Larry

[Peter J]

Larry, I've used good old shellac as a barrier coat.

 On the copper gilded sub I built, I had a "learning experience" when I sprayed clear urethane over the gilding. The size used under gilding is essentially varnish (oil base) and the hot solvents in automotive clear made it worm and crinkle in a not-so-subtle way.

Redid the whole shebang using shellac over the gilding as a barrier coat and misted the first coats of clear.  Shellac barrier coats used to be common in the wood finishing world but I went out on a limb here and it worked. Old way still has it's place...I was happy!

[lacro]

Larry, I've used good old shellac as a barrier coat.

 On the copper gilded sub I built, I had a "learning experience" when I sprayed clear urethane over the gilding. The size used under gilding is essentially varnish (oil base) and the hot solvents in automotive clear made it worm and crinkle in a not-so-subtle way.

Redid the whole shebang using shellac over the gilding as a barrier coat and misted the first coats of clear.  Shellac barrier coats used to be common in the wood finishing world but I went out on a limb here and it worked. Old way still has it's place...I was happy!

Peter,
 That's an interesting thought. I know shellac is used to seal wood before lacquer finishes. What I don't know is the actual make up of the currently available low VOC products that I may find locally? All these finishes are now completely different formulations, including automotive clear coats. Some are actually water based?? I am pretty much destined to brush applying the final finish on my speakers. I really would like to try automotive clear coat, but I just don't have a warm enough place to spray paint.

 Cured epoxy will accept most any finish, but lacquer thinner is an epoxy solvent. I don't know if the current "brushing lacquer" is using lacquer thinner as a solvent, probably not as it is listed as low VOC. The shellac sealer coat may just be the best primer?

Larry

[lacro]

Trying to stop from sanding through the color on the speaker cabinets is an on going battle. The roundover corner points are giving me headaches. I tried using Zinnsers Seal Coat (de-waxed shellac) as a transition primer for my final finish, but it dries so quickly it is difficult to get an even coat on all the speaker surfaces. However lightly sanding between coats still causes sand through in spots here and there. It's working better on the stands because the raw MDF was pre-stained with India ink.
 I want to try wiping on Poly as a top coat as Ron suggested, but since the cabinets are black, is there a colorant product for coloring the poly black to help prevent the sand through? Ideas??

Larry

[lacro]

 I ran out of time to work outside before winter set in, and have been trying to get an acceptable finish on the speaker cabinets and stands. I tried several finishes both brushed, and wiped on. Nothing was acceptable so I resorted to rattle cans in gloss black over multiple coats of polyurethane I had brushed and wiped on. I am working in my basement, so spraying is not best idea.

 3 coats of the black spray over my previous finishes ( India ink, epoxy/graphite, epoxy color tinted, shellac, polyurethane) turned out pretty good with only a few dust specs, and a little orange peel in spots. Having experienced final finishing of SOFT finishes such as varnish (not Poly), and rattle can paint, I went directly to 1000 grit wet sanding, and finished with 1500 grit wet. I have found that sanding with coarser paper, and progressing finer is better suited to automotive catalyzed finishes that are much harder.

 I know compounds, polishes, glazes, waxes all can bring out a spectacular finish, but again I was concerned about cutting through the soft finish, besides I do have a life!  I have heard good things about McGuire's Ultimate Compound, and Polish. Being a Pro-sumer product designed for detailing rather that a body shop product, I decided to give the Compound a try.

 I already own a Porter Cable detailers VS random orbit polisher that I use on my vehicles. It allows amateurs like me to get good results with less chance of doing damage I went at it with the McGuire's after sanding to 1500 grit. I am totally amazed how well the gloss black mirror finish came out! I tried going onto a polish (not McGuire's Ultimate), which should have been an even better finish, but it wasn't? I'm very satisfied with the 1000/1500 sanding and final finishing with the McGuire's Ultimate Compound. A coat of wax, and I am done...
 
Here's some pics of the process on the stands:

Wet sanding 1000/1500 grit:



Sanded to 1500, ready for Compounding with RO polisher:



Gloss finish before waxing:



Larry

[sl_1800]

Looking good!!