My X-LS Encore Build

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Ron

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #120 on: 24 Mar 2013, 03:21 am »
Larry,

  You did a excellent job on both your speakers and the stands. They look fantastic! :thumb:
Thanks for all the pictures you have posted for everyone to see. Anxious to read your comments on how you think
they sound. I have built a number of pairs of X-LS Encores with all the performance upgrades for others and I think they sound
very nice.

Ron

Nick77

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #121 on: 24 Mar 2013, 10:14 am »
Nice work! That epoxy has great results when working with mdf.  :thumb:

grimace

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #122 on: 25 Mar 2013, 12:43 am »
These look sweet!  You definitely have to write-up your full process (especially how you ended up finishing the speakers).  Also, the stand design would be great to see too.  Good news is they will sound every bit as good as they look :)

gregfisk

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #123 on: 25 Mar 2013, 02:24 am »
Larry,

I was following your thread when you started and was wondering how your project would ultimately turn out. Man, You really did a nice job on the finish and those stands look really good the way you designed them! Let us know how they sound when you get some time to listen.

Greg

Saturn94

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #124 on: 25 Mar 2013, 02:30 am »
I just noticed the date you started this thread.  Wow, not only do you have serious skills but amazing patience! :thumb:

lacro

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #125 on: 30 Mar 2013, 03:05 pm »
Well... I have about 40 hours of music break-in on the speakers. But, first let me thank everyone for your positive comments!! I have always wanted a pair of stand mounted monitors to replace my 30 year old Paradigm 5SE floor standers. My listening environment/man cave is a small 10'X13' former bedroom. The 4' wide closet has the doors removed, and has been re-purposed to a desktop computer set-up.

 When Danny offered these kits with prebuilt crossovers at great prices, I jumped on the X-LS Encore kit after reading several positives reviews. My goal was to build a pair of mains for my small room for both music and HT being driven for now with a Marantz receiver. If they worked out, I would build the matching center, an 8" Servo sub and use other speakers I have for surrounds. If they didn't cut it, they could always be used as surrounds or delegated elsewhere.

 Well... after giving them a fair amount of break-in, I can say I am quite pleased with the sound. I am currently only using them for 2 channel. Even though they don't go as low as my old Paradigms the amount of base they can handle is amazing, and it's tight and accurate. Where they really shine is the mids and highs. I am glad I went for the Encore version with the better tweeter. I can listen all day without fatigue in my small room. The clarity of female voices is amazing for such a low budget speaker.

 I have been using them streaming Pandora from my Blu Ray player, and even this compressed sound is amazing. I gave them a try with a CD that I knew would give them a real work-out: Tourist Saint Germain '2000 (Electronica) I was pleasantly surprised to hear these little speakers reproduce the full listening range that's on almost every track of this CD. The mids and highs are a given, but I am totally amazed how good the bass sounds.

 In conclusion: These are truly good sounding speakers even in their stock form. The upgrades can only make them better. I would not hesitate to recommend these to anyone considering building speakers particularly for a small room environment.  A sub would take the already good bass response to another level. They're a keeper!!!

 I will summarize my build and finishing methods in another post.

Larry

corndog71

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #126 on: 30 Mar 2013, 03:12 pm »
If you want to make the most of those old 5se's (I wanted those for the longest time!) you could add some No Rez to the cabinets and rebuild the crossovers with better parts.  That will breathe new life into them.

I've done it with a couple pairs of cheap Polk towers and it really works!

Captainhemo

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #127 on: 30 Mar 2013, 06:34 pm »
Hey Larry
Glad to hear you  are liking your  Encores, they are a great little speaker aren't they ?   When I built the pair for my neice,  I put them in my listening room  for a while and was  pleasantly surprised as well.
Are you planning on building the matching center   channel next ?

We are again  at the ame point in our  build process's,  I  just started my break in as welll :)  I love the anticipation  when you  are  hooking them up and are about to have that intial listen

-jay

Ron

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #128 on: 30 Mar 2013, 10:51 pm »
Larry,

  Glad that you are pleased with the sound quality of your X-LS Encores. They are very nice speakers at a budget price. I have built a few pairs of X-LS Encores for others with the Sonicap, Mills, and No-Rez performance upgrade mods which takes the performance up to a higher level. Cleaner, more  detailed sound quality, with increased sound field width and depth. If you like your X-LS Encores in stock form, you will like the performance upgrades even better.

Ron

lacro

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #129 on: 6 Apr 2013, 12:40 pm »
If you want to make the most of those old 5se's (I wanted those for the longest time!) you could add some No Rez to the cabinets and rebuild the crossovers with better parts.  That will breathe new life into them.

I've done it with a couple pairs of cheap Polk towers and it really works!

Your suggestion peaked my interest enough to pull the woofer from one tower in search of the crossover. However, the CO is actually mounted on the rear connector cup. It's a tiny thing consisting of 2 boards connected together with small coils and caps, but these speakers still sound pretty darn good.
 I wouldn't know where to start in rebuilding the CO. The particle board (not MDF) cabinet is heavily lined with fiberglass insulation. It looks like installing No-Rez through the woofer hole would be pretty difficult.
 These old Paradigm speakers look and sound as good as they did when new. They probably wouldn't fetch much trying to sell them so making improvements does interest me. I will search for what others have done with these old Paradigms, especially crossover improvements or replacement.

Thanks,
Larry

lacro

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #130 on: 6 Apr 2013, 03:05 pm »
 I mentioned I would summarize my build/finishing process.... When I started this project I decided to document every step (photos) so that others may benefit form all the ideas and suggestions from Forum members, and most of all learn from my mistakes.

 If you follow my build from the beginning you will see quickly I am from the "Cheap and Cheerful" school. My construction process is pretty well documented, but my finishing methods were a lot of trial and error. So... I will describe them in a little more detail.
 
After getting the cabinets glued together and rounding all edges which I agonized over because it's not a conventional speaker look. However, I am happy with the look.

 I decided to paint the cabinets/stands. MDF sucks any finish like a sponge and it's well known the glued butt seam can show through almost any finish due to seasonal humidity changes. I have a lot of experience using epoxy in boat building, and decided to try it on this build. 

 Piano black look was my goal, so I tried a couple methods to fast track the process, and learned a lot along the  way. On the stands I used Black India Ink (alcohol based) To stain the MDF. It works great with just one coat, and I highly recommend doing this first step on raw MDF if painting with a dark color such as black.

 The next step I rolled on epoxy thinned 10% with lacquer thinner on the cabinets that were not first stained with the ink. Not staining first was a mistake as it added more steps later. The stands were also coated with the thinned epoxy. The epoxy soaked in easily on the MDF.

 My original goal was to try to get the color buried under the epoxy and just finish with a clear coat of some type, and buff. However, I had failed to pre-stain the cabinets I needed to get the black color on them without resorting to paint. I tried a couple methods I have used in the past. one was using a special black colorant in the epoxy. It doesn't cover like paint, and the raw MDF was still showing.

The next thing I tried was adding graphite powder. This works a lot better, but it is a grayish black color, not the deep piano black I is was looking for.
 The stands were a lot easier to get the nice black color because of the pre-staining with ink. The epoxy really hardens the MDF making it like hardwood. I rolled and tipped 3 colored fill coats after the initial thinned epoxy coat. I sanded between each coat, but I had problems sanding through to the raw MDF in small spots which required more color fill.

 When I finally got a nice black color I did the final epoxy sanding. The next step was applying Zinsers SealCoat (shellac). I tried wiping it on, but on the cabinets it dried so fast, it was difficult to get smooth. It worked better on the stands. I used the shellac as a transition primer for the next step, and because I could build several coats in one day.

 The next product I tried was Minwax Clear Polyurethane I had left from floor finishing. I applied 3 coats of the poly, sanding between with 320 dry. I couldn't get all the brush strokes to sand out to my liking, and I couldn't take them outside to try spraying the clear because it's winter!

 I made a decision that turned out to be a good one. I bought a single can of gloss black spray paint from HD. I was able to apply 3 coats of this black spray on the cabinets and the stands in one session without sanding between coats. One single rattle can did 3 coats on everything! I let them harden for a week.

 Having had experience wet sanding and buffing soft finishes in the past, I decide to try some methods I use in boat finishing. Soft finishes such as regular spar varnish are easily sanded with very fine paper. I immediately started wet sanding with 1000 grit 3-M paper, and followed with 1500 grit wet. The surfaces were smooth and free of defects.

 I have a Porter Cable random orbit detail buffer I use for my car care. The buffer uses foam pads of various density depending on the product being applied which can be compounds, polishes, glazes, and waxes. I opted to try Mcguires Ultimate Compound which turned out to be perfect for this paint finish. This product is designed for restoring older car finishes. Normally one would follow with a polish, glaze or swirl remover before going on to a wax.

 To my surprise, The compound was all that was needed to get a mirror finish before waxing. I tried Minwax paste wax (for wood finishes), but I wasn't satisfied with the result. It slightly dulled my perfect mirror finish. I resorted to a liquid automotive wax. I know most auto waxes contain silicone and can affect refinishing, however, chemical wax removers, and wet sanding has always worked for me in the past removing auto waxes. This wax brought out the Piano finish I was looking for.

 In conclusion:
 On future builds if I want a piano black finish I will do the following....
  • Stain the raw MDF with black India Ink
  • Apply 1 or 2 thinned coats of epoxy to seal the MDF
  • Apply 2 not thinned epoxy coats, sand smooth
  • Apply several coats of Seal Coat, sand smooth
  • Spray multiple coats of a clearcoat finish, wet sand smooth with 1000/1500
  • Buff with Ultimate Compound, finish with wax, DONE....

Larry

corndog71

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #131 on: 7 Apr 2013, 03:38 pm »
Your suggestion peaked my interest enough to pull the woofer from one tower in search of the crossover. However, the CO is actually mounted on the rear connector cup. It's a tiny thing consisting of 2 boards connected together with small coils and caps, but these speakers still sound pretty darn good.
 I wouldn't know where to start in rebuilding the CO. The particle board (not MDF) cabinet is heavily lined with fiberglass insulation. It looks like installing No-Rez through the woofer hole would be pretty difficult.
 These old Paradigm speakers look and sound as good as they did when new. They probably wouldn't fetch much trying to sell them so making improvements does interest me. I will search for what others have done with these old Paradigms, especially crossover improvements or replacement.

Thanks,
Larry

I ran into the same situation with a friend's Polk towers.  When I opened them up I found a different crossover in each cabinet.  I contacted Polk and they said there were several changes to the crossovers.  They emailed me the final version and I got to work using Erse caps and chokes and Mills resistors.




My friend was very happy with them.  He said he didn't have to turn up his receiver as much to get them to sound good and that vocals were clearer.  They threw up a bigger soundstage too and filled the room better.  He also noted that the bass seemed a bit tighter.  His son is still enjoying them last I heard.

Danny Richie

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #132 on: 8 Apr 2013, 03:19 am »
Good job corndog.

osd1

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #133 on: 8 Apr 2013, 03:00 pm »
beautiful build.

hahahah i was just reading your post about the finish- i now make a point to build a mock cab and finish that first before i do the main cabs. even with veneer. so many times ive been on a jobsite or someones house building something and i always see the painters/stainers come in and do a section of the floor before as opposed to just walking in and saying "ok go to town"

either way you did a great great job on those

corndog71

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #134 on: 8 Apr 2013, 05:41 pm »
Good job corndog.

Thanks, Danny.  I'm just a student following the Master.   :thumb:

lacro

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #135 on: 13 Apr 2013, 02:27 pm »
 Now that the dust has settled! It's time to start the next build, but I need some suggestions...

I am a "Cheap and Cheerful", "Bang for the Buck" kind of guy. Sooo.... Here's some of my thoughts for both HT and Music:

  • I already like my Encores and it's well documented that upgrades make them better. Do some upgrades before building more speakers
  • I do want/need a new center. Build 1 X-CS Encore to go with X-LS Encores if it's the correct match
  • Build 3 X-CS Encores as Mains/center, move X-LS Encores to rears. That's if the sealed X-CS Encores will work as mains (vertical orientation) Could move them close to the wall :thumb:
  • Build X-Statiks for mains, X-CS for center assuming it's a match
  • Skip the X series, and build N3's for mains
  • Build a servo sub, upgrade my X-LS Encores, and build the X-CS Encore for the center

These are just a few possibilities, any other ideas/suggestions are welcome, especially "bang for the buck" suggestions. I now have the plunge base for my little Bosch Router and I am itching to make some saw dust!
Help me spend some $.....  :D
Larry

 

Captainhemo

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #136 on: 13 Apr 2013, 05:06 pm »
Hi Larry
Looking forward to  following your next build too. Hehe, maybe we'll end up doing  subs "together" this time  although it sounds like  you'll be starting something before I do.

I don't think  the X CS would keep up with the Statiks.  Danny designed the X Vocca to be the center  for the Statiks .  The staticks would be a  fun build though,  I've considered building a pair  just   for a build.  Danny could probably also set you up  with the X Vocca parts if you  wanted to  do the statiks  and have the matching center.   That would be an awesome set up. 

I was  wondering if you  had considered  the  X MTM which is  just the X CS in a  ported tower  and then  a X CS as the center and  like you  said,  the  Encores as rears.   That might be nice.
The 3 X CS's as fronts would also be nice, especailly if space is  an issue and you  want to get closer to the wall.

The AV3's  and AV3S woould seem to be a  great  bang for buck  option as well.   You could either go with the  TL's as mains or  do the sealed  versioin for both mains and center.  I know Ron has a pair of AV3 TL's and  is really  happy with themn.  Basically  the same speaker as the N3 with different tweeters

I just love the Neo 3 PDR tweeter.  It is  justs so detatiled and clear.  There is quite a diference  when I compare it to   the tweeter in  my neices X LS Encores.  Is it worth the $$ difference,  I can't really  answer that for you.  For me it woould be,  I find it makes a big difference.

I would recommend  you  go with the  Sonicap/Mills upgrades in  any of the above.  The other thing is the no res... if time   and ease of installation is a factor,   spend the extra $$ on the no res.  Man,  I used it in  the OB7;'s  and it was SO much  easier  to deal with than the  vinyl/foam homemade stuff.  Plus,  you  don't have to deal  with  contact cemnt :)

Theres some more to think about   LOL

-jay

Danny Richie

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #137 on: 13 Apr 2013, 06:04 pm »
Quote
I don't think  the X CS would keep up with the Statiks.

Actually they are the same drivers with the same sensitivity. Just one is a sealed box while the other an open baffle with a pair of woofer below to cover the sub 200Hz ranges. If one were limited to placement near a wall or on a shelf in an entertainment system then the X-CS would the best best choice.

Lacro, if you did want to give an X-Voce a try though I have a lot of them fully assembled that I still need to move.

All of those options are good choices. You won't go wrong regardless. Maybe figure out what you most want in the end and then go about getting there building a little at a time.

Ron

Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #138 on: 17 Apr 2013, 12:13 pm »
Larry,

  I have a question about the epoxy that you used on your speaker cabinets. Was it a two part epoxy where you have to mix the resin and hardener together? Also, what brand name epoxy did you use? Approximately how long does it take to dry before you can sand and apply addition coats? I am planning on build a pair of X-LS Encores with a 1/2" radius on all the edges
like yours and I will be painting it a bright gloss red in lieu of gloss black.

Ron

Peter J

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Re: My X-LS Encore Build
« Reply #139 on: 17 Apr 2013, 02:24 pm »
Larry,

  I have a question about the epoxy that you used on your speaker cabinets. Was it a two part epoxy where you have to mix the resin and hardener together? Also, what brand name epoxy did you use? Approximately how long does it take to dry before you can sand and apply addition coats? I am planning on build a pair of X-LS Encores with a 1/2" radius on all the edges
like yours and I will be painting it a bright gloss red in lieu of gloss black.

Ron

Ron,  Larry can speak to specific products he prefers, but I believe he's using epoxy laminating resin. Same basic stuff as epoxy glues, but formulated for different applications. You can learn more here;

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Epoxy/epoxy.html

BTW, the guys who run the place have been very helpful when I've talked to them about off beat applications and needed some advice. I've used System Three quite a bit and they used to have a mini-book brochure that was full of all kinds of epoxy info. If you happen to talk to Fiberglass Supply, you might ask them about it.

Found it! Somewhere I have the printed version, but it looks like the whole thing's viewable online.

http://www.systemthree.com/sys3news/?cat=6