[jackman]

Just make sure you are adjusting volume level to account for differences in gain.  If not, the louder amp will usually sound more dynamic and throw off the results.

[OzarkTom]

What a classy post!

Seth is top class all the way. 

I agree with rclark 100% all the way on the build quality. Seth put higher quality parts in his amp and sold it factory direct. With a dealer network, the amp would have cost $850. I believe that Seth was very smart in this struggling economy, he knew that the sales would be very slow coming at $850 for the Two.2. And the Sensation 451 with tube buffer would have sold for $1600 through a dealer, while the Snsation 901 and tube buffer would have sold for $1900. So the smart thing to do, no dealers. More and more companies are starting to go this way, lower retail prices and sell factory direct. It gives the consumer more bang for your bucks, but it does not quarantee you to get the best sound.

Maybe rclark can help me sell my Virtue Sensation here. I haven't sold it due to loyalty to my friend Seth. And ever since the tube buffer was put in it, I never listened to the SS section. The tube side was always more musical and more magical. The Dueland Alexander caps I used are the highest rated on the market today, but these are so big, they would never fit in the Two.2.

If the Sensation was better, I would be using it. It is slightly more veiled and less holographic than the TBI. The TBI has given me the biggest soundstage that I have ever heard on my low wattage system.

But I have a lot of faith in Seth, I am sure that the next generation of the Virtue amps will sound better than the one I currently own.

[Rclark]

Yeah, the only reason I brought it up at all, was because it shocked me to see the differences. When you have the two next to each other, the Virtue seems highly underpriced. In fact, I think with the TBI you are paying entirely for the technology, and not at all for the hardware. And even then I suspect they are making quite a profit. It's entirely digital, weightless.

So far it seems to have a very pleasant, something I can't put my finger on yet. Listening to Them Crooked Vultures on the monitors, and it's very pleasantly textured.. but seems not very dynamic.

I'll be able to more accurately assess after I listen for a while longer, I'm going to listen all today, then choose an album to repeat a couple times, vary the volume, then pop the Virtue back in there.

Tommorrow I will do the same thing, but with the Ncores.

[jtwrace]

vary the volume

Why?  All comparison should be done at the same volume.

Tommorrow I will do the same thing, but with the Ncores.

....and wet yourself.   

[Rclark]

So I can hear both high and low capability. I will use my meter of course.


And yes on that last point, I suspect you're right, even at low levels 

[jtwrace]

So I can hear both high and low capability. I will use my meter of course.

I see.  So you will do them independently; correct? 

[Rclark]

Yes, listen at certain levels, single disc repeated, tune ears to certain "regions", take notes.

[wisnon]

Yeah, the only reason I brought it up at all, was because it shocked me to see the differences. When you have the two next to each other, the Virtue seems highly underpriced. In fact, I think with the TBI you are paying entirely for the technology, and not at all for the hardware. And even then I suspect they are making quite a profit. It's entirely digital, weightless.

So far it seems to have a very pleasant, something I can't put my finger on yet. Listening to Them Crooked Vultures on the monitors, and it's very pleasantly textured.. but seems not very dynamic.

I'll be able to more accurately assess after I listen for a while longer, I'm going to listen all today, then choose an album to repeat a couple times, vary the volume, then pop the Virtue back in there.

Tommorrow I will do the same thing, but with the Ncores.

Maybe so, but I am almost certain that the TBI chassis is metal not plastic. Please confirm!

Also, it my my understanding from designers that class D amp layout should be very tight and compact to deal with RFI noise, etc. Same thing applies to the acclaimed Bantam Gold in the UK. Using lavish, spread out class A/B electronics chip layouts is a big no-no consequently.

See the Gold's innards here:

[Rclark]

RClark:
A few things:
1)   Your pics are a little misleading, as there is more electronincs inside the TBI not shown.   

That's not true, As you can see I pulled it open, snapped shot, went inside, snapped shot. Unless there's some secret compartment in there, it's just those two little boards inside a cheap casing.

The ability to take AA batteries is commendable and thoughtful though.

[wisnon]

I understand the situation.. and am listening..

But thing is, this is (the Virtue) a Tripath. So not that far off. Not like some dramatically different topology.

Class D is a switching tech, like switching PSU, so mhz RFI interference will be an issue so classic class AB topology is not ideal. Back then this was less understood than today. I guess industries that use HF switching tech should serve as a guide?

[Freo-1]

That's not true, As you can see I pulled it open, snapped shot, went inside, snapped shot. Unless there's some secret compartment in there, it's just those two little boards inside a cheap casing.

The ability to take AA batteries is commendable and thoughtful though.

Not exactly. Your pictures do not clearly show all the internals of the TBI.   The Millenia is made of aluminum and its knob stays on without crazy glue.
Additionally, big pretty parts in Class D amplifiers mean they will radiate more RF inside and to the exterior environment.  That is one of the major reasons most Class D amps sound harsh, flat, and 2D.
BTW, have you  read the owners manual for the Virtue?  It's full of cautions relative to blowing it up. Noises on the volume control with no solution as per the manual, etc.   There are engineering reasons why the TBI is designed the way it is, all relating to sound quality, long term reliability, etc. 



 
 
 

[Rclark]

haven't read it yet.

I get it though, it's class D, the Ncores are the same, they are just a switcher and an amp, and they do crazy good things, it's the future. Like I said before, you're paying for the technology in use, not so much the hardware on the TBI.

[OzarkTom]

haven't read it yet.

I get it though, it's class D, the Ncores are the same, they are just a switcher and an amp, and they do crazy good things, it's the future. Like I said before, you're paying for the technology in use, not so much the hardware on the TBI.

Yeah, it is so hard to believe how samll this Class D technolgy is today. When I look at those tiny 200 watt Ncore modules, I say no way could that ever be 200wpc. those Classdaudio circuits are so small also. Since the TBI is only 32wpc, there is harly anything inside. The circuits are so much smaller than other class solid state amps. I often wonfer why the amp sounds so good, mayne that is the reason.

Well rclark, since it obvious that you do not like the amp, should I go ahead and send you the next address tonight on the tour? I know that he is anxious to get the amp.

[OzarkTom]

So far it seems to have a very pleasant, something I can't put my finger on yet. Listening to Them Crooked Vultures on the monitors, and it's very pleasantly textured.. but seems not very dynamic.

Not dynamic enough? My wife will argue with you all day long on that statement.

We have a couple on the tour using the GR Research Super V's and the V2, we will see what they have to say about the dynamics. Since you are the first to bring that up on the tour, maybe everyone else  just missed that problem.

I still have my Virtue amp that is loaded to bear for sale if anyone wants it. There are none to buy at Virtue.

But in my system of 99db, the TBI is so transparent and detailed, dynamics and speed is actually magnefied. Anyone that wants to come to my house and hear Eagles Hotel California  on the Hell Freezes Over CD at ear splitting levels, come on over.

[wisnon]

It HAS to be as small as possible to sound as good as possible.

Class D is a paradigm shift and people need to wrap their heads around that!

BTW folks, I spoke to Rodge (Chris) and he is doing OK, but did have a LOT of property damage with the storm floods. He asked me to let you all know he is fine and hopefully his insurance will do what its there for and helphim rebuild his life in an orderly manner.

Also he was fortunate in that he managed to save his audio gear and golf clubs! LoL

[OzarkTom]

It HAS to be as small as possible to sound as good as possible.

Class D is a paradigm shift and people need to wrap their heads around that!

BTW folks, I spoke to Rodge (Chris) and he is doing OK, but did have a LOT of property damage with the storm floods. He asked me to let you all know he is fine and hopefully his insurance will do what its there for and helphim rebuild his life in an orderly manner.

Also he was fortunate in that he managed to save his audio gear and golf clubs! LoL

I was worried about Chris and all of the others that were here on the tour list in the Hurricane area. I hope the others will come on and speak up that they are OK, if they can get to a computer.

Occam (NY)
mytubes211 (NJ)
Ispec2 (Pa)
rodge827  (NJ)-OK
Gopher (NY)
lpost (PA)

[Rclark]

Oh poor Rodge, that sucks. Thumbs down on that whole ridiculous storm. I hope they are able to get underway smoothly.

Hey Wisnon, it looks like I'm at 90db efficiency. Not sure if the mod and replacement crossover designed by Danny Richie changes that at all. but 90dB. I just pm'd Danny to find out if it's different.

I can imagine this amp being a screamer with something more efficient, but here it seems to have a bit of a compressed presentation. It may just be the speakers, they are nothing like my planars...at all. Only using them because they're an easy 8ohm load for this amp.

I'll know more when I pop the Virtue back in.

Pro's so far: nice textures, black, quiet, precise. musical.

[Rclark]

Just finished watching Pat Metheny Way Up Live, and it's pretty hard to find any faults with this sort of material. Does a nice job with drums and the percussion effects in the large hall, very fast, precise, delicate. Very pleasant sounding overall. I'm going to have to attribute some of the compression to the less than ideal tweeter.

[Rclark]

On to cd's here in about an hour. My initial benchmark is Van Halen "Eruption"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti1BWGgdGL8

followed by Jimi Hendrix's Valleys of Neptune, full album, and then a test album full off acoustic guitar, opera, classical, bluegrass. Time to get into it.

[Rclark]

I have put the Virtue back into the system and am playing it on the monitors for the first time. Initial impressions: The Virtue looks over, pops its collar, and brushes off its shoulders, one at a time.

I'm not hearing a beaten amp. Different presentations though. The strong dynamic is back. That drive, that willingness to take the highest notes and really emphasise them. The TBI is almost too polite. Maybe not on 109dB speakers, but you kind of need those in order to rock off 35 watts, let's get real here. The Virtue is certainly more powerful, almost boisterous. Will take time to fully evaluate the differences.

Playing Miles Davis Kind of Blue through the Virtue and it is swinging pretty hard. The drums really sizzle and also just as delicate and precise, if not moreso.