[cab]

I'm well aware of the purpose of a tour. That isn't the issue. If the OP is selling these he should declare himself upfront as a dealer.

[OzarkTom]

This amp is available at TBI Sound for $500.

http://www.tbisound.com/dsp_products_millenia.asp

There is a very recent factory update on the power supply and the factory is the only one that has it. I would highly recommend to buy the amp direct from them to get this new update. It will be worth your while.

[wisnon]

The tour allows people who otherwise would have no knowledge of the product to try it out. 
Given my past prejudices regarding Class D amps in general, I would have never even bothered to try it.   The topology is pretty unique within the Class D arena,  so it does sound different.  It is designed primarily for low wattage applications.

To be honest though, Arion and Temple both can make the same claim about unique topology. It is the final result that matters...ie, how it sounds and that is what makes the tour interesting (at least for U guys in the US).

[Rclark]

 Tom is very generous to be sending out his amp for us all to try and we should be grateful. My bad for stirring something up, I thought it was known that Tom has a small business selling this stuff, he was listed as a IP in other threads. I don't think Tom is expecting to make a fortune off two or three amps sold from this.

 I don't think the users other than Tom who have reported on the amp have been duped in any way, so it must be a nice little amp.

[OzarkTom]

For those who just have to know, this is my business. I make custom frames for 12-14 hours, seven days a week. Now when I retire in 5 years, I would like to go back to selling audio again. But to sell audio again, I will have to take a major pay-cut from my framing business. Custom made picture frames is something that every household in the world needs, but not high-end audio.

http://stores.ebay.com/Custom-Framing-Factory-Outlet

[Freo-1]

To be honest though, Arion and Temple both can make the same claim about unique topology. It is the final result that matters...ie, how it sounds and that is what makes the tour interesting (at least for U guys in the US).

I agree that in the final analysis, it’s a given products performance that matters. The topology for the TBI is different enough from a standard Class D that it avoids most of the shortfalls associated with Class D amps (and most of them have a lot of shortfalls, IMHO).

 For example, the input volume circuit is an impedance matching network, It sports a new breed of op-amp OPA2889), along with a chip setup that provides a lower distortion performance and improved linearity over discrete components.  In general, I HATE op-amps, (and go way out of my way to avoid them), BUT, this one in this amp works very well.

There is a modification to the power supply circuit recently developed by the team at TBI that is designed to elevate the performance from the AC supply to equal or better that from a SLA battery source. My amps have been upgraded by Mr. Plummer at TBI, and I'll be posting the observations from this modification in another thread that will be focused on modifications to the TBI in general, and provide emphasis/details on this update.

 Going back to Mister Pig's observations, the tour is allowing the amp to be used with components that normally would not be employed with the amp given the amps price point. The fact that the amp performing this well with such components speaks very well for its performance
 

[OzarkTom]

roscoeiii should be receiving the TBI Millenia amp tomorrow or the next. Then it will head out west to rclark.

There was a rave review of the Dayens Ampino in this month's Stereotimes. But Rex and I both agree, the TBI is quite a bit better than the Ampino.

http://stereotimes.com/amp101112a.shtml

[Rclark]

 But the question is begged... Is it a Giant Killer? We haven't seen that comparison yet. The Ncore, since it has been brought up, has proved to be in that arena of amp. What about the TBI?

[OzarkTom]

But the question is begged... Is it a Giant Killer? We haven't seen that comparison yet. The Ncore, since it has been brought up, has proved to be in that arena of amp. What about the TBI?

You will soon find out.

[wushuliu]

I'm well aware of the purpose of a tour. That isn't the issue. If the OP is selling these he should declare himself upfront as a dealer.

I give you credit for waiting 15 pages before peeing on the thread - athough you tested the waters earlier. Appreciate the restraint it took!

And who cares about the Ncore? What in the world does it have to to with the TBI. I wasn't aware the Ncore cult owned the trademark for 'giant killer'. Sheez. How about just celebrating the fact that all kinds of Class D are catching up to the old stalwarts of tubes and solid state in sound quality. I mean it's good to have choices, right?

Right?

[Rclark]

Well, you've seen (if you read the diyaudio thread) the Nc400 being compared to not just $5000 amps but $20,000 amps like Accuphase, and other like amps.. Clayton. Atma-Sphere. I've seen people sell very expensive amps to run them. It could very well be called a giant killer, and is.

Now, the very title of this thread is "Giant Killer" but all we've seen so far is maybe a Pass SS amp and the allusion that it is like running a decently priced SET amp. I'm just hoping we get to see the epic battle with a giant that we've been waiting for.

[wushuliu]

Well, you've seen (if you read the diyaudio thread) the Nc400 being compared to not just $5000 amps but $20,000 amps like Accuphase, and other like amps.. Clayton. Atma-Sphere. I've seen people sell very expensive amps to run them. It could very well be called a giant killer, and is.

Now, the very title of this thread is "Giant Killer" but all we've seen so far is maybe a Pass SS amp and the allusion that it is like running a decently priced SET amp. I'm just hoping we get to see the epic battle with a giant that we've been waiting for.

The same comparisons have been done with the Classdaudio.com amps many on this very forum with $5k, $8k, $10k amps - but those are supposed to be inferior peasants to the Ncore, right?

Look the Ncores sound like a phenomenal amp, I look forward to hearing them someday but their is no need, none, to have a p*ssing contest. It's unnecessary. Come on, we're grown people here. I suggest a separate thread for 'Ncore vs TBI' or whatever because otherwise this thread will just tank.

[Rclark]

You're missing my point rather well.

 I didn't bring the Ncore up, it was already brought up. The Ncore has stood up to scrutiny. I'm just wondering if anyone has the sort of equipment that can be referred to as "giant" in this tour, or has anyone heard the TBI in such company? Since we have elected to call the TBI a giant killer, it would be neat to count the number of titans slain. That's all.

[wushuliu]

You're missing my point rather well.

I'm not sure that's possible. Are we going to waste time deciding if someone's gear qualifies as GK now? Are we going to have an inquiry?  Is someone going to ask next if the TBI's *literally* slain a giant and what were the exact dimensions of said giant?  I'm interested in reading people's feedback not keeping score. 

Meh. Hamster wheel. Have at.

[Rclark]

touche. But still, the thread title isn't "a pretty good amp." It's "gk!", nearly in all caps too. Where's the beef, that's all.

[OzarkTom]

touche. But still, the thread title isn't "a pretty good amp." It's "gk!", nearly in all caps too. Where's the beef, that's all.

Like I said, you will soon find out. You are second up on the tour now.

I am getting my amp updated this week. Rex has had his updated for a week or so. Rex told me the other night that after all of these years and all the amps that he has ever bought and all the money that he has ever spent, he now has the amp that he always has been looking for.

And Rex has probably owned as many amps as anyone else here has ever owned. 5 SET amps, 12 AB tube amps, 4 OTL amps, and numerous Class A and Class AB SS amps. He will vouch that this amp is a giant killer, better than any SET or OTL amp that he has ever owned.

This last power supply mod has taken this amp way over the top. Now you don't need a battery to get the best result. The mod is now on the tour amp, and you rclark are going to get to hear it.

Unless you want to drop out of the tour.

[Freo-1]

I just got my amps back last night from TBI with the power supply mods.   At first blush, I would say that the amp's performance has further increased by 20 to 25% with the update.  I'll be starting another thread about modifications of the TBI in general, and the power supply mod specifically.
 
I'll refrain from hyperbole, but I would highly encourage owners of the amp to get this power supply update.  I would also recommend this amp be auditioned, and one can judge for themselves.
 
Keep this in mind:  It works BEST with low wattage setups.  If your speakers are less efficient, then two amps are required to get the best performance.

[rodge827]

The speakers that Rex and I have tried this amp on is the following. Anthony Gallo Classico 3 and 4's, Gallo Strada's, Tonian TL-D1's, and Rethm Trishna's.  The Classico 3 and 4's will go down to a 4 ohm load, but they have no crossovers. The 3's are 88db efficiency, the TBI plays them loud enough for me. But I would never run this amp with Magnepans or Acoustats, too in-efficient and complicated load.

All of these speakers are very revealing and somewhat efficient.

Rclark, do remember that your Maggies are a power hungry speaker and that Tom does preclude them as a bad match for this amp. Keeping your power needs to the TBI wattage rating will help for a fair comparison.

Hey lets face it...If you have a speaker that demands an amp with a lot of head room (Maggies, Acustats, B&W 801, 800's, etc) the TBI will probably not be a good match. I believe the wattage rating is somewhere around 30w and will sound its best on a speaker that will work well in that wattage range.

FWIW I have been fortunate to listen to many good amps in my system, Pass 30A, First Watt f5, ATC SIA 150, and my current amp Virtual Mode Power Pac 1.  None of these amps engaged me to the music like the TBI did!   I was sucked in like Clinton to an inturn and moved and grooved to the music in a way that I hadn't in years!

Enjoy,

Chris

[OzarkTom]

Yep, if everyone in the world owned Maggies, there would never be any need for amps like the TBI, SET amps, low powered Class AB tube amps, or the Pass First Watt amps.

But then that would make this hobby very boring.

[wisnon]

touche. But still, the thread title isn't "a pretty good amp." It's "gk!", nearly in all caps too. Where's the beef, that's all.

Not all GKs are available in the US: Feast your eyes on these monsters from Rowen...much cheaper than DartZeel, also from Switzerland:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/suisse2010/2.html

I'd seen Swiss electronics/speaker firm Rowen last year but never understood just why I'd never come across them anywhere prior to moving to Switzerland. They only sell in this country. That also explains their pricing which for apparent build quality and features seems very reasonable given that nothing is outsourced. "Our customers are essentially our dealers so we've eliminated one layer of middlemen" explained the owner's son and vice director Pascal Aebischer. They also run import firm Dynavox to bring into Switzerland and Germany NAD, PSB, Myryad and Dali. "If we did export with Rowen, we'd have to raise our domestic prices to match. This we did not want so we only sell domestically."

While this admittedly does leave out the majority of our international readers, how about a dual-mono amplifier which delivers 65 watts into 8 ohms and one kilowatt into 0.5 ohms; can be bridged to 240 which into half an ohm then nets 3.500 watts; and sells for CHF 6.490? Now add that it is fully balanced, avoids all feedback and offers a negative output impedance to eliminate cable interactions. Say hello to the Absolute One at lower left.

Rowen's very best preamp with massive top-class Mundorf capacitors sells for CHF 4.990. Hmm. Here too a personal visit to the facilities seemed called for to investigate this unusual business model closer.