TBI Millenia MG3 Class BD Integrated Audio Amplifier..A Modern Day Giant Killer!

Freo-1 · « **Reply #260 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 7 Oct 2012, 04:59 pm

The criticism of this amp is unwarranted. No product is loved universally and the TBi seems to compare favorably with several more expensive amps. It's funny but there is a big thread on this site generally praising another well regarded amp. Occasionally someone prefers another amp and all of the fanboys are quick to point out systemsynergy, compatibility or personal preference. It is interesting some people are unwilling to extend the same courtesy to this amp.

Well stated. This audio passion is a hobby after all (and a very subjective one at that). The purpose of this thread is to alert AC members of a low powered amp that gets very close to high end performance without the high end price. We are always looking for these kind of products for both ourselves or our friends.

As stated earlier, it's not for everyone, as one needs the right speakers to employ this successfully.

cab · « **Reply #261 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:31 pm »

I haven't criticized the amp at all, just said that if it is being called a giant killer, then compare it to giants....

Isn't that simply logical?

No need for anyone to get defensive....

Freo-1 · « **Reply #262 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:36 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 7 Oct 2012, 05:20 pm

Well, FWIW Tom seems to have some hugely anamolous power conditions at his house that preclude anything but battery power. Must not watch much tv I kid. Any AC powered amp it seems makes him run out of the room in less than five minutes.

There are a few with Ncores on this tour that will compare. Anand is one. I will be comparing them on my extremely easy to drive 8ohm GR monitors.

My hunch though, being as this is class D versus class D, not a pretend SET amp versus class D, that the claim of "more tranparent" etc, is, by the numbers alone, a physical impossibility. "Emotion" is largely subjective. We'll see.

If I do like this amp though I might pick one up for a headphone amp or system 2.

Keep in mind that the topology is completely different between the TBI and almost any other Class D, from the input processing, to output filtering. Almost all Class D amps employ a high amount of negative feedback to get it's distortion numbers so low. The TBI does not. They will sound different within the power ranges.

So, it is possible (based on topology differences) for the TBI to present a open, transparent sound.

cab · « **Reply #263 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:41 pm »

Where does it take the feedback from- post or pre output filter? How does the frequency response look versus load? We already have been told the distortion levels are set like....

OzarkTom · « **Reply #264 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:42 pm »

We have more room in this amp tour if you don't mind joining in the rear. You can see for yourself if it will work in your system or not.

The next listener, poseidenvoice, has asked to be dropped to the rear due to seasonal viral ear infections that has been going on in his area. None of this equipment will sound great with clogged ears.

cab · « **Reply #265 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:46 pm »

Thanks for the generous offer but it doesn't have enough output for my system.....

Freo-1 · « **Reply #266 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: cab on 7 Oct 2012, 05:41 pm

Where does it take the feedback from- post or pre output filter? How does the frequency response look versus load? We already have been told the distortion levels are set like....

Read the positive feedback review to get a high level overview. For a more detailed explanation, contact Mr. Jan Plummer directly. I have found him very supportive regarding answering any questions one may have.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #267 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:52 pm »

Anyone else wants to join the tour?

Blackmore · « **Reply #268 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:57 pm »

Sure! If they get back to Missouri I'd like to hear them on my Lowthers. Let me know if that is OK.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #269 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 06:17 pm »

Quote from: Blackmore on 7 Oct 2012, 05:57 pm

Sure! If they get back to Missouri I'd like to hear them on my Lowthers. Let me know if that is OK.

Hi neighbor, will do.

ebag4 · « **Reply #270 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 06:27 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 7 Oct 2012, 05:52 pm

Anyone else wants to join the tour?

I would like to try it with my V1s if possible. I am in the Louisville KY area.

Thanks,
Ed

Mister Pig · « **Reply #271 on:** 10 Oct 2012, 03:54 pm »

Interesting how this thread has evolved, and it has touched on one of my pet peeve subjects...the use of the term giant killer. If an audio component can conceivably slay the giants in the hi fi world, then it is in itself a giant right? But somehow this term has become established in hi fi jargon, and in the past has gotten over used. So at best some people equate its use with optimistic zeal, or at worst borderline fraud. I try to stay clear of the term.

One of the hardest things to accomplish is relate what we hear from an audio system into the written word, for it is difficult to convey what our senses experience to those who can only read about the event. Which leads to this idea that the Millenia is SET like, and what does that mean, furthermore what kind of confusion and ambiguity does it create? I do not believe that the Millenia was designed to mimic the presentation of a SET amplifier, but to be the best possible product it can be at the price point it resides at. In my mind, the ultimate goal of reproducing music as realistically as possible is the final arbiter of performance for the Millenia, and comparing it to other products is just one limited way we can tell others about how we think the amp performs. So take that SET like comment with a grain of salt, and understand the limitations of what information it can convey.

The Millenia has a low noise floor, which allows it to excel at low level detail and spatial presentation, especially on battery power. These attributes, especially when coupled with a lack of grunge from power supply or AC mains noise is what gives it a SET like quality. But each component in the market place is distinctive, and has its own group of limitations and strengths. When compared to my 300B based SET amplifier, the tube amp has a greater degree of harmonic texture and density, but it should seeing as how it costs several times more than the TBI. But this is with a system with other components that have been selected for this amp, which is an advantage that any other "home team" is going to have on the Millenia tour. I have had a chance to rotate in a few pieces and accessories that were beter mated for the Millenia, and was able to get improvements in sound quality.

If you are after that SET sound, I find that cabling does make a incremental but important difference. In my system I find that the TBI likes a cable that is full bodied and slightly romantic, which maximises the amplifiers ability to convey that harmonic texture. So far Cardas and WireWorld have worked well with it, as has the VH Audio products. I think cables from Vampire, Alpha Core speaker wire, Straightwire , and others should do a good job with it. I suspect most silver and hybrid wires would could have issues, but only way to know it....well is to try it.

The other aspect to remember is that all of this is being evaluated through speakers, and each speaker system is distinct in its personality. Most SET people use high efficiency speakers of some sort, whether it be single drivers or horns. While the Millenia does not need 94db+ in efficiency, these HE speakers have a personality that is distinct, just like any other speaker, and this combination of speaker and cabling can show the Millenia to be superb, or just ho hum. I have been able to make it sound either way in my system. Now those people who use a more conventional speaker system have more leeway in choosing the voicing of the speaker to match with this amp. This would also make the choice of cabling a bit easier, since there is more latitude in voicing. In short, this is a discussion of system synergy....hate that word too...but its a good descriptor for this point.

Is the Millenia the contemporary of a $5000 amplifier? In a system that is optimised for this amp. it is possible that it can be within spitting distance. That is very strong praise for a $500 amp that is coupled with a $100 of battery pack. I have not heard the amp with upgraded connectors, so it may be possible to gain a bit more sound quality from this amp. But from my perspective, this is an incredible product for someone getting into this hobby, or with a limited audio kitty, and just building a system. With proper associated components you can get musical reproduction that will make a multi thousand dollar system look like poor purchase. Will it give you the ultimate level of sound quality? Probably not, but it will come close enough that many people will just not care.

I enjoy listening to the Millenia amplifier, I think it is a watershed product at its price point. I think there is more performance that I can coax out of it with proper component matching. What is cool about this tour is that people are using the amp with speakers and front end products that can show what it can achieve. For most buyers of $500 amplifiers are not going to give it $5K worth of front end or speaker. So the amplifiers abilities are never fully realised.

Regards
Mister Pig

morganc · « **Reply #272 on:** 10 Oct 2012, 11:51 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 7 Oct 2012, 05:52 pm

Anyone else wants to join the tour?

If she ever makes it to the west coast I would be interested

.

electriceye · « **Reply #273 on:** 12 Oct 2012, 07:28 pm »

Has anyone bought one from the seller on amazon who has it at 400? Seller doesn't have any feedback so It's a bit risky maybe. I would like to join a tour but guessing I wouldn't qualify as I'm a new member, understandable. I'm in Iowa.

Rclark · « **Reply #274 on:** 13 Oct 2012, 10:07 pm »

Tom sells them, should be able to hook you up.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #275 on:** 13 Oct 2012, 10:52 pm »

This thread sure reads like an infomercial.

cab · « **Reply #276 on:** 13 Oct 2012, 11:18 pm »

I asked before if the OP was selling these and my post was removed....If he is, don't the rules specify he identify himself as an industry participant?

Freo-1 · « **Reply #277 on:** 13 Oct 2012, 11:49 pm »

Quote from: Mister Pig on 10 Oct 2012, 03:54 pm

Interesting how this thread has evolved, and it has touched on one of my pet peeve subjects...the use of the term giant killer. If an audio component can conceivably slay the giants in the hi fi world, then it is in itself a giant right? But somehow this term has become established in hi fi jargon, and in the past has gotten over used. So at best some people equate its use with optimistic zeal, or at worst borderline fraud. I try to stay clear of the term.

One of the hardest things to accomplish is relate what we hear from an audio system into the written word, for it is difficult to convey what our senses experience to those who can only read about the event. Which leads to this idea that the Millenia is SET like, and what does that mean, furthermore what kind of confusion and ambiguity does it create? I do not believe that the Millenia was designed to mimic the presentation of a SET amplifier, but to be the best possible product it can be at the price point it resides at. In my mind, the ultimate goal of reproducing music as realistically as possible is the final arbiter of performance for the Millenia, and comparing it to other products is just one limited way we can tell others about how we think the amp performs. So take that SET like comment with a grain of salt, and understand the limitations of what information it can convey.

The Millenia has a low noise floor, which allows it to excel at low level detail and spatial presentation, especially on battery power. These attributes, especially when coupled with a lack of grunge from power supply or AC mains noise is what gives it a SET like quality. But each component in the market place is distinctive, and has its own group of limitations and strengths. When compared to my 300B based SET amplifier, the tube amp has a greater degree of harmonic texture and density, but it should seeing as how it costs several times more than the TBI. But this is with a system with other components that have been selected for this amp, which is an advantage that any other "home team" is going to have on the Millenia tour. I have had a chance to rotate in a few pieces and accessories that were beter mated for the Millenia, and was able to get improvements in sound quality.

If you are after that SET sound, I find that cabling does make a incremental but important difference. In my system I find that the TBI likes a cable that is full bodied and slightly romantic, which maximises the amplifiers ability to convey that harmonic texture. So far Cardas and WireWorld have worked well with it, as has the VH Audio products. I think cables from Vampire, Alpha Core speaker wire, Straightwire , and others should do a good job with it. I suspect most silver and hybrid wires would could have issues, but only way to know it....well is to try it.

The other aspect to remember is that all of this is being evaluated through speakers, and each speaker system is distinct in its personality. Most SET people use high efficiency speakers of some sort, whether it be single drivers or horns. While the Millenia does not need 94db+ in efficiency, these HE speakers have a personality that is distinct, just like any other speaker, and this combination of speaker and cabling can show the Millenia to be superb, or just ho hum. I have been able to make it sound either way in my system. Now those people who use a more conventional speaker system have more leeway in choosing the voicing of the speaker to match with this amp. This would also make the choice of cabling a bit easier, since there is more latitude in voicing. In short, this is a discussion of system synergy....hate that word too...but its a good descriptor for this point.

Is the Millenia the contemporary of a $5000 amplifier? In a system that is optimised for this amp. it is possible that it can be within spitting distance. That is very strong praise for a $500 amp that is coupled with a $100 of battery pack. I have not heard the amp with upgraded connectors, so it may be possible to gain a bit more sound quality from this amp. But from my perspective, this is an incredible product for someone getting into this hobby, or with a limited audio kitty, and just building a system. With proper associated components you can get musical reproduction that will make a multi thousand dollar system look like poor purchase. Will it give you the ultimate level of sound quality? Probably not, but it will come close enough that many people will just not care.

I enjoy listening to the Millenia amplifier, I think it is a watershed product at its price point. I think there is more performance that I can coax out of it with proper component matching. What is cool about this tour is that people are using the amp with speakers and front end products that can show what it can achieve. For most buyers of $500 amplifiers are not going to give it $5K worth of front end or speaker. So the amplifiers abilities are never fully realised.

Regards
Mister Pig

Thank you for your thoughful observations. I think these thoughts accurately capture the intent of the thread, which is to alert AC members and guests about the TBI amp. Nothing more, nothing less.

cab · « **Reply #278 on:** 13 Oct 2012, 11:54 pm »

It doesn't take a tour organized by the OP, who may be selling these, to alert ac members and guests about the TBI amp.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #279 on:** 14 Oct 2012, 12:01 am »

The tour allows people who otherwise would have no knowledge of the product to try it out.
Given my past prejudices regarding Class D amps in general, I would have never even bothered to try it. The topology is pretty unique within the Class D arena, so it does sound different. It is designed primarily for low wattage applications.