Hestia OB, an ambitious low cost, 3-way OB design

Squidspeak · « **Reply #200 on:** 28 Oct 2014, 04:45 pm »

Matevana, one more question. I am going to use the 300w Yung plate amp, I know you suggest that
all three drivers get wired normal polarity + and -. How about the phase control on the plate amp,
do I leave that at zero? Thanks Squid
P.S. is your brother going to see the Hestia Grande make it's debut in Brooklyn on Saturday?

matevana · « **Reply #201 on:** 28 Oct 2014, 05:33 pm »

Hey Squid,

My experience with absolute polarity is that distance from the front wall (and other room boundaries) has an impact on phase relationships. If you experiment with placement you will see that standard polarity works best up to a certain distance from the wall, and when this distance is exceeded (by moving too close to the wall) reverse polarity can sometimes produce better results. You can measure this metric for specific frequencies and plot their phase relationships to see what's really going on, but it's often just as easy to do this by ear. The variable phase control (on some plate amps) allows you to dial this in (sorta) and can be interesting to experiment with.

Unfortunately my brother will be on the road this weekend. Please take pics and post them. I would really like to hear the comments about your entry.

Ed

Squidspeak · « **Reply #202 on:** 31 Oct 2014, 02:44 am »

Well got everything assembled and wired; and wow. Trying to get them broken in for
the NY/NJ DIY event on SAT. So far incredible bass from the 15" woofer and crystal
clear mids/treb. I will let you know how they do at the big show. And pics of course.

rodge827 · « **Reply #203 on:** 31 Oct 2014, 03:04 am »

Quote from: Squidspeak on 31 Oct 2014, 02:44 am

Well got everything assembled and wired; and wow. Trying to get them broken in for
the NY/NJ DIY event on SAT. So far incredible bass from the 15" woofer and crystal
clear mids/treb. I will let you know how they do at the big show. And pics of course.

Will you/they be in the shop tomorrow?

piazzafatb · « **Reply #204 on:** 31 Oct 2014, 02:44 pm »

Hi Matevana

I have 4 of these 12"
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2962-/55-2962
Can use it as mid?
The big difference is sensitivity.
What you think.
Thanks.

matevana · « **Reply #205 on:** 1 Nov 2014, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: piazzafatb on 31 Oct 2014, 02:44 pm

Hi Matevana

I have 4 of these 12"
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2962-/55-2962
Can use it as mid?
The big difference is sensitivity.
What you think.
Thanks.

Honestly you can try. I suspect that since you are are trying to meet a 3/4" dome you will be asking the 12" driver to play out of it's comfort zone; the mids may suffer a bit. The sensitivity issue can be dealt with easy enough.

OB_Newbie · « **Reply #206 on:** 2 Nov 2014, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: piazzafatb on 31 Oct 2014, 02:44 pm

Hi Matevana

I have 4 of these 12"
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2962-/55-2962
Can use it as mid?
The big difference is sensitivity.
What you think.
Thanks.

Oh Zaa, how about using those 12's for bass duties driven by plate amps and keep the 10 and Vifa up top as designed. That would be a wonderful use of your MCMs!

Cheers,
Richard

piazzafatb · « **Reply #207 on:** 3 Nov 2014, 10:41 am »

Thanks
I already have 4 (12)
Would use as mid and bass drivers.
I am goin to buy Vifa and crossover parts to try how it sounds.

Squidspeak · « **Reply #208 on:** 4 Nov 2014, 12:55 pm »

Hi all, pictures and reviews of my Hestia project at the NY/NJ diy event can
be seen on the PE tech talk forum. If anyone could post them here I would
appreciate it. I'm computer challenged

Squidspeak · « **Reply #209 on:** 4 Nov 2014, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: rodge827 on 31 Oct 2014, 03:04 am

Will you/they be in the shop tomorrow?

How would you like to listen to them for a couple days at home, these don't have a home yet
so If you want to try them out let me know.

rodge827 · « **Reply #210 on:** 4 Nov 2014, 06:55 pm »

Yeah man would love to have them in the system for a cuppala days.

brad944911 · « **Reply #211 on:** 4 Nov 2014, 06:56 pm »

Hey all, new to the board, but not audio. I've been a DIY'er most of my life and just love it! I've been following this for a few months and have a couple of questions for Matevana and those who've heard/built these before I start this project.
I noticed Matevana, that you're a musician; I'm a drummer...the guy that follows y'all around

and am looking for a nice set of OB's that give me that concussion that drums produce, mostly the snare, while being clear in vocals and maintaining exceptional transient responses. So question: will these produce that? My gut says yea, but...
I currently use Magnepan 1.6/QR's with a Crown DSi 100 amp and custom subs and while the maggies sound beautiful, they lack that "kick". I'm not looking to blow the doors down, but I miss the dynamics that I KNOW are there. I truly listen to everything except rap, mostly focusing on country/classic rock.
Thanks for the help guys, Brad

matevana · « **Reply #212 on:** 6 Nov 2014, 12:54 pm »

Hey Brad,

Thanks for your interest; it's a really addictive hobby. You ask a really good question that relates to feeling the whack of a snare as opposed to just hearing it. Dipoles do a great job of producing sounds accurately and have a speed to them that as a drummer, you will really appreciate. In the near field (when you sit close to the speaker pair at the apex of an equilateral triangle) you will also feel the music in your gut. What dipoles don't necessarily do (by design) is load the room, which is unfortunately how most people are accustomed to hearing traditional boxed speakers. That being said, given the proper drivers and power, they can energize you to the point where you feel the music as well!

A good example of this is a dipole project by Martin J King which makes use of two AE15 drivers per side for bass duties. I have not heard these myself, but based on Martin's description may be something you would like to emulate in your design. Martin comments on how little driver movement occurs when a total of 4, fairly efficient, 15" drivers are used. Regardless, all true dipoles will produce the figure of eight radiation pattern,which depending on where you sit, will tremendously affect how you hear and feel the music.

Ed

brad944911 · « **Reply #213 on:** 6 Nov 2014, 03:04 pm »

Ed, thanks for the heads up on this. I considered the Hawthorne 15" Duets much for this reason, but I'd like a smaller footprint (and price tag) than they have, hence looking at DIY 10's. Your design hit me just right; it wasn't too large, too costly and everyone had done so much development it seemed like a no brainer. I don't have a workshop anymore (traded a back yard shop for a river

) so a lot of trial and error is just not viable. I guess I'll keep looking.
If any of you guys have seen a design using 10's like this one that may meet my goals of a solid punch, clean sound all round and OB, please point me in the right direction. I'd be most grateful. No matter what, thanks for taking the time to help me out!

matevana · « **Reply #214 on:** 6 Nov 2014, 05:47 pm »

You might want to check with Squid since he uses a larger bass driver with a similar footprint. It isn't that they don't go low enough or get loud enough... they do. It's the way they interact with the room that's different. Picture your drum set in a recording studio with foam on the walls and ceiling. Your kit would sound very articulate and uncolored... not what you would expect in a club or live setting.

rodge827 · « **Reply #215 on:** 8 Nov 2014, 01:30 am »

Squid OB at Casa De Rodge

OB_Newbie · « **Reply #216 on:** 8 Nov 2014, 06:48 am »

Quote from: brad944911 on 6 Nov 2014, 03:04 pm

Ed, thanks for the heads up on this. I considered the Hawthorne 15" Duets much for this reason, but I'd like a smaller footprint (and price tag) than they have, hence looking at DIY 10's. Your design hit me just right; it wasn't too large, too costly and everyone had done so much development it seemed like a no brainer. I don't have a workshop anymore (traded a back yard shop for a river ) so a lot of trial and error is just not viable. I guess I'll keep looking.
If any of you guys have seen a design using 10's like this one that may meet my goals of a solid punch, clean sound all round and OB, please point me in the right direction. I'd be most grateful. No matter what, thanks for taking the time to help me out!

Brad... dude... go with dual MCM 10's and a plate amp per channel (look for sales over the holidays). I have a pair of Jung 200 watt with 6db boost and they drive the MCM's flat to 35Hz with lots of snap. I like smaller, faster drivers for better transients and for such a inexpensive woofer the MCM's are amazing. I have a small room and needed a narrow panel and these have worked very well for me.

I went with the Tang Band W4-1879 on top instead of the MCM and the Vifa's as I really enjoy the coherency of fullrange drivers. But I'm sure the MCM 10 + Vifa as per the design would sound excellent as well.

Build with confidence... you will not be disappointed!!

Cheers,
Rich

Squidspeak · « **Reply #217 on:** 10 Nov 2014, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: rodge827 on 8 Nov 2014, 01:30 am

Squid OB at Casa De Rodge

How do they sound?

motosapien · « **Reply #218 on:** 12 Nov 2014, 01:00 am »

Quote from: matevana on 6 Nov 2014, 05:47 pm

You might want to check with Squid since he uses a larger bass driver with a similar footprint. It isn't that they don't go low enough or get loud enough... they do. It's the way they interact with the room that's different. Picture your drum set in a recording studio with foam on the walls and ceiling. Your kit would sound very articulate and uncolored... not what you would expect in a club or live setting.

OB speakers work in smaller rooms for the reasons mat mentions above. I set my manzanitas up in the mouth of a 2 car garage and they sounded fabulous. The music just plain enveloped the scene. So they work well in larger spaces too provided enough clean amplification.

OB_Newbie · « **Reply #219 on:** 12 Nov 2014, 10:49 pm »

Nice pic Moto!
How are the Hestia's sound after the drivers are broken in? I noticed a large improvement in the MCM after about 100 hours of break-in. Interesting that the sounds good even without lower bass support. They look nice man... nice work!

Regards,
Richard