[Kt77]

Why not just consider something along the lines of say a Pathos Acoustics Classic MK III!. Which is an Italian made hybrid Integrated Amp that is rated at 70 w/pc and only requires 2 small single tubes - which makes it more replacement friendly ( tube wise ).

It also allows for less space to be taken up, as well as saves something on that extra set of IC's along with a the three upgraded power cords you'll looking to add at some point - if you go the preamp - mono route?. To me it's merely a logical option if nothing else. As a matter of fact, there are quite a few hybrid based Integrateds out there to select from.

And in the end, you know it makes prefect sense - don't you?.

Regards,
O_o scar

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

If it were me it would be a SS preamp for total accurracy and a tubed Amp for the flavor. Both applications will give you some tube sound just a matter of YOUR personal taste.

Sorry, I'd disagree.

A proper desing/built tube preamp beat many many SS preamp in term of "accuracy" in music reproduction, anytime, IME.

I play from my many hundreds of vinyl collection & I can tell you so, let alone CD-audio & DVD-audio.

c-J

[medium jim]

I would almost always go with a Tube Pre over a SS Pre....I'm sure that there are some rather expensive SS Pre's that will knock it out with the best of the Tube Pre's.   I might go with my SS amp for the rest of the summer due to the heat factor, knowing that I will lose some of the soundstage and detail...it will just make me more appreciative of my tube amps again!

Jim

[twitch54]

Maybe, maybe not, but it definitely is about the virtues of vacuum tubes vs SS!

Jim

Jim, with all due respect a 'generalized' statement like that is nonesense, for it's obvious you have not listened to some of the better Class A 'SS' offerings out there......Pass, Plinius to name but a few !

[medium jim]

Your statement is pretty interesting as I was referring to Preamps and Class A refers to Amps.  If you go back to my full statement, you will see that I do reference high priced SS.

However, I am a bonafide, dyed in the wool "Bottlehead" and will always be. Tube amplification and preamplification is more organic, does have more weight, a deeper and wider soundstage and is more engaging. 

I have respect for the Nelson Pass', Mark Levinson's, etc. who can make amps/preamps that sound like tubes...but, still not the same.

Jim

[twitch54]

Your statement is pretty interesting as I was referring to Preamps and Class A refers to Amps.

no.....your first post (reply #11) referenced to 'amps' .....and for the record 'Class A' refers to circuit topology, not just 'amps'

 

If you go back to my full statement, you will see that I do reference high priced SS.

Jim, there must be a post erased or something for I don't see it ???

However, I am a bonafide, dyed in the wool "Bottlehead" and will always be.

that's fine, nothing wrong with that

 

Tube amplification and preamplification is more organic, does have more weight, a deeper and wider soundstage and is more engaging.

again....another generalized statement that has NO 'spine' to back it up

[bunky]

Synergy is the most important aspect of any system.low sensitivity speakers like high power and big tube power amps generate alot of heat and they are expensive to re tube. i like tube power amplifiers and i am willing to put up with the extra heat and maintainence involved with them. i like tube preamplifiers that are fast and neutral.in my experience warm euphonic tube preamplifiers are sluggish when used with tube power amplifiers they rob detail and speed and bring too much warmth to the sound. when done right tubes are all about the midrange and that is where the music lives.I notice that some of you guys like to argue too much. we are all stereo fanatics here and if someone has a different opinion it is what it is so just let it go and act like a good neighbor. life is too short for petty disagreements....WCW III

[medium jim]

no.....your first post (reply #11) referenced to 'amps' .....and for the record 'Class A' refers to circuit topology, not just 'amps'

 
Jim, there must be a post erased or something for I don't see it ???

that's fine, nothing wrong with that

 
again....another generalized statement that has NO 'spine' to back it up

Dave:

Not going to be drawn into a debate, but if you don't like Tubes, why are you trolling here?  You are correct that Class A can be applied to Preamps, however, Class A, A/B, D, etc typically refers to Amplification....

No erased posts, go back and re-read....

Jim

[twitch54]

but if you don't like Tubes, why are you trolling here?

I never said that...YOU did, for the record I've been listening through tubes for well over fifty years. I'm not trolling rather responding to YOUR profound claims of sonic superiority of tubes !

No erased posts, go back and re-read....

I did, your wrong, your post #11 refers to AMPS !

[opnly bafld]

OT post deleted.

[SteveFord]

I hate to say it but you're clearly in error that we argue too much and I have the facts to back it up in a filing cabinet out in the garage somewhere or other, unlike some other people I could mention.

This doesn't have much to do with SS amps but for the past two hours I've been listening to an early 60s Harman Kardon tube tuner through a WooAudio 6 tube headphone amp and solid state just can't capture that particular sound that a good tube system can.
For the OP, buy your tube amps and see what you've been missing.  If you don't like them you can always sell them but you probably won't.
Off to a reptile show to get some chow for the zoo.

[twitch54]

Jim is not right very often, so I felt compelled to do this. 

mister 'baffle' I see that.......my refrence is to 'POST #11".............OK .......to the Op, sorry for the minor derailment (as a railroader I've experienced much worse) ......getting back 'on track' , there is many a eurphoric means to an end...tubes...SS...tubes, both, together or buy themselves can yield superb results. It's all in the synergy, incl the acoustics of your listening room.

Jim, if you don't think I can appreciate tubes young man take one look at my system and you will see I do have an infinty for 'bottles' !

[opnly bafld]

OT post deleted.

[medium jim]

twitch: 

Let me get this right, you asked if I erased a post, but when someone points out where I commented on high-end SS Pre's you then say you were only referencing post 11.

Then you go on and say that you've been listening to tube's for over fifty years and direct me to your system, yet you say that I'm making profound statements about tubes v SS? 

My opinions are based on over forty years of listening to music and that encompasses listening to many outstanding systems both Tube and SS.  Sure there are some amazing SS gear, but then you read the designers take on what he/she was aiming for and in most instances it was to achieve what tubes did.

I agree that tube gear generates a lot of heat, expends more energy, and needs to be maintained on a regular basis. Yet, even with said shortcomings, is still only a small inconvenience.

Since you are a tube guy for over fifty years, are you saying SS is better and doesn't produce a grander soundstage, more weight to the music, more detail?

Jim

[Ericus Rex]

I'm confused here too   

[twitch54]

Let me get this right, you asked if I erased a post, but when someone points out where I commented on high-end SS Pre's you then say you were only referencing post 11.

Jim, for one last time......my replies (initial) were to your post (#11) which was about amplification

Sure there are some amazing SS gear, but then you read the designers take on what he/she was aiming for and in most instances it was to achieve what tubes did.

with respect to emulation of 'tube gear' by SS designers, only as it applies to the 'magic of the mid-range', this combined with inherent benifits of SS gear in the lower and upper octaves makes for a superb design, again ie. Pass, Plinius, etc.

I agree that tube gear generates a lot of heat, expends more energy

as does Class A SS gear

are you saying SS is better and doesn't produce a grander soundstage, more weight to the music, more detail?

with regards to the Op's 'low efficency' speakers and as an application throughout the audible freq range....probably yes.

Again.....the operative word here is 'synergy', remember this, the vast majority of tube amplifies perform at their best when the impedence curve of the speakers they are driving stays at or above their lowest output tap.

[Andre2]

If I was doing it all over again in the $15,000 range, and I wanted all of the virtues of tubes without the complexity, the heat, and without taking up too much space (all things you mentioned), I would focus on a pair of efficient floor standing speakers and a really nice low powered tube integrated.

Add a good set of speaker wire and you're on your way.

(Oh yeah, and add another 10k for the source component and interconnects.  )

That is of I've done on my system that I got last year.  I spent 1/3 of that.

[medium jim]

Twitch:

Maybe you should check my system which is in direct conflict of what you post.  You opine that low powered tube amps are a mismatch for low eff speakers.  Well, I have no problem with a pair of Marantz 9's driving a pair of Magnepan 2.5's.  (I'm referring to your posts in the Planar Circle).

Sure, I have a pair of powered subs, yet I often run my amps in triode (40watts).  Put it this way, there is no 40 or for that matter 70 watt SS amp that I've heard that does what my 40/70 tube amp can do as far as weight, soundstage, detail and finesse. Moreover, I've owned several SS amps that were all more powerful and they didn't do it for me, even with a tube pre. 

My comments in post 11, which you seem to be hung up on, estolled the virtues as I perceive them regarding tube amps and had nothing to do with watts as you tried to make it.  If anything I was offering a reason why tube amps seem to sound louder watt per watt against their counterpart SS amps.

Your ire towards me is rather unbecoming and is not what the AC is about. 

Jim

[twitch54]

Your ire towards me is rather unbecoming and is not what the AC is about.

no 'ire' at all Jim, let's move on, enjoy your system !

[Wayner]

I think TONEPUB did hit the nail on the head. I think you have to design your system backwards. The amplifier/speaker relationship has to be established first, before you start going upstream. Inefficient speakers and a less then adequate tube amp will not bring happiness. If you jump over to the SET amp circle guys, they are all in the very low power amps with very high efficiency speakers. This has been a problem throughout audio from the very beginning of days. Mismatched speakers and amps always leads to the very unhappy listener.

The speakers you are thinking about will need some power, so a SS or hybrid amp is going to be your best shot. If you want to sweeten the SS a bit, then the tube preamp is certainly in line.

Also, the old myth that all tubes is bad, is just that, a myth. If you want that, then you need to find different speakers, like something in the 92-93db/m/w range.

Wayner