[cab]

Really, how much more than the ncore 400 can the ncore 1200 cost? Double? Triple? even if it is triple the cost, isn't it hard to figure a $9000-$10,000US price for a complete amp?

[hifial]

Well cab I kind of agree with you but the NC1200 is not a one size fits all like the NC400 is, regardless that some are looking to improve on it. The NC1200 is designed so that each OEM can add their own "special sauce" to the amps. This is besides the chassis, binding posts, inputs, wiring and etc. Now DIY will use the most cost effective parts but OEM will most likely use premium parts. All this will add up and then there is the profit and warranty etc. But I do agree that $9-10,000 is a little high. The one exception would be Bruno's Mola-Mola as you would think he has the "Real Special Sauce". IMHO.

[cab]

I think many diyers will use top quality parts as well....

Your are right though that there are a lot of hidden costs that manufacturers have to factor in...Still, it seems a bit steep. I think the first company that spends the money and time creating a product with the ncore that is all about sound and value, and skips the fancy case, etc., with a realistic price, will do very well....

[jhm731]

More from Paul:

"Thanks - yes, the UCD400 is the basis of what we've been playing with. The Hypex design platforms are all cool because the way they sound is largely dependent on the front end you attach to them - and their power output stage is one of the smoothest neutral and perfect output stage I have ever seen. The Ncore is apparently better but not in a way that makes me want to spend our customer's money on it."

[cab]

That seems to be an odd way of looking at things....From all reports the ncore is clearly superior. I would let the customer decide how to spend their money and give them the best available. I'm guessing the profit margins will be better with the UcD.....

[kevinh]

That seems to be an odd way of looking at things....From all reports the ncore is clearly superior. I would let the customer decide how to spend their money and give them the best available. I'm guessing the profit margins will be better with the UcD.....

The reports were based on people using the older UcD modules, the UcD's are (have?) being revamped to incorporate most of NCore innovations.

http://www.audiophilejournal.com/hypex-ncore-monoblock-amplifiers-mola-mola/

The NCore circuit contains:

 1)   A mathematically exact understanding of self-oscillation

 2)  Improved comparator circuitry insures that actual behaviour matches the theoretical model as closely as possible

 3)   New gate drive circuitry improves open-loop distortion at moderate signal levels while significantly reducing idle losses

 4)   A new control loop ups loop gain by 20dB across the full audio range without sacrificing stability

Amplifiers using all four of the above will be marketed under the name Ncore.

Amplifiers using only the first three will still be sold under the existing UcD brand even though their internals no longer resemble that of the well-known 2001 circuit.

It sounds like OEM's could get something very close to NCore in a product at a lower price point.

[cab]

It sounds like OEM's could get something very close to NCore in a product at a lower price point.

I don't think hypex has released the specs or pricing on the new UcD line. I am sure they will be much cheaper than the ncore. Remains to be seen if they are close in performance or if this is just an accounting decision....

[sts9fan]

That seems to be an odd way of looking at things....From all reports the ncore is clearly superior. I would let the customer decide how to spend their money and give them the best available. I'm guessing the profit margins will be better with the UcD.....

Companies do make products to a price point.  It is completely feasible that Paul does not think the performance difference between the two is worth the price delta.  So basiclly you expect all amp companies to use Ncrap? Otherwise they are just in it for the money?

Edited

[Rclark]

Most of the check boxes are checked on the new amps, so even the low end oem amps should theoretically be pretty sweet.

[Barry_NJ]

As with marketing/developing all products it's a business decision...

In actuality I think the profit margin on the NCore units is likely higher per unit, but I also think that a very good $1,995 amp will far outsell a $12,000 amp regardless of the objective or subjective differences in performance. Hence the business decision to go with the new UcD module over the NCore.

Myself, I'm interested in hearing one of the new UcD modules too...

[cab]

Companies do make products to a price point.  It is completely feasible that Paul does not think the price difference between the two is worth the price delta.  So basiclly you expect all amp companies to use Ncrap? Otherwise they are just in it for the money?

Price difference and price delta are the same thing thus that comment has no meaning...It is also completely feasible that they are in it just for the money. Yes, I expect all amp companies to use Ncrap, I think those were my exact words....Ncrap....ha ha ha....I get it, you are trying to be funny and insulting at the same time....one out of two ain't bad....

[Freo-1]

It depends on how defines “superior”.  When one starts discussing high end amps, the preferred sound performance is VERY subjective.  There are strong reasons why many audiophiles prefer tubes, Class A, etc as their “superior” amp.
 
There can be little doubt that the costs incurred with these amps are driven disproportionally towards the IP related to the product compared to the actual costs of the parts.  Those of us who play in the DIY circuit already know about parts costing.  Given the amount of work/research involved to get class D to sound good, it makes some sense. 

[sts9fan]

Your correct, I edited my post.

[cab]

Your correct, I edited my post.

That would be "you're correct"....

[sts9fan]

It's well known that the grammar troll is the lowest form of Internet troll.
People are thumb typing on little screens, mistakes happen.   

[cab]

I wasn't correcting your grammar, I was correcting your spelling.....For the record, little keys have nothing to do with grammar....

Stock UcD has been well reviewed. No doubt the trickle down will make it even better. Will be interesting to see how it compares to the ncore...

[OzarkTom]

I wasn't correcting your grammar, I was correcting your spelling.....For the record, little keys have nothing to do with grammar....

Harvard?

[wilsynet]

Perhaps the person correcting grammar and pedantically calling out the difference between spelling versus grammar could stop liberally sprinkling ellipses all over the place.  An average of one ellipsis every two sentences seems a bit much.

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ellipsis.aspx

"To quote the book Grammar for Dummies, “Using ellipses in this way can get annoying really fast.”"

Consider leveraging other punctuation more broadly.  A period?  Perhaps a semicolon or em-dash?  Write your next winning sentence with flair and style (!) and break free of your addiction to the ellipsis.

[Rclark]

none of you win any awards.

[cab]

"To quote the book Grammar for Dummies, “Using ellipses in this way can get annoying really fast.”"

I generally don't take advice from Dummies. YMMV...

What type of front end will PS Audio use for their UcD amp? Any guesses?