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Been there, done that, several times. The answer is still no.
Back to the original post. Audiogon is the biggest ripoff in high end audio!!!!!!!!!
This thread pointed out that there needs to be a General Circle, where all things that don't fit in the existing circles can be discussed ad nauseam.Jim
You've already expressed in this thread that you have disdain for the arguments in the thread, and the "kiddies" in it (your word, not mine). If you dislike it so much, why have you posted several times in it? I understand that you think there should be consensus at the end of an argument, but not all arguments and cleanly. If you don't like this thread, think a thread about the expensiveness of audio equipment doesn't belong in this circle, fine. But the mods here seem to be ok with it: nobody is forcing you to read it, and it actually hasn't been all that much of a flame war. If there weren't any arguments, that would indicate that there was a sterile monoculture of people who all believe the same thing.
I disagree. Audiogon* may be the most inept organization in high-end audio, given their world-class f***-up, but it is a huge library of information. I have a little heartburn with folks who seem to go out of their way to circumvent pretty reasonable fees and hide their transactions. Granted, there is a fair amount of neurosis in this (or any) hobby, but I'm not sure they are the people I want to deal with. Seems childish to me. After all, AC members may have the occasional gripe with AC rules, but we don't spend a lot of effort trying to get around them.I've had great luck on AG, buying AND selling, and made some good friends. Wish I could say the same with some ebay pricks I've had the misfortune to deal with.*You could argue that it's a tie between AG and Monster, but I don't see AG extorting money from Audioquest, Audiocircle, audiologists, etc.OK, back to our regular programming!
A 'reasonable fee' is their flat rate. But the percentage they tag on top of that flat rate is criminal. A more expensive item is charged extra just b/c it sold for more. Audiogon accepts no increased risk nor incurs any extra expense or hassle by listing an item that is more expensive. How can you/they justify this surcharge? This is why people circumvent their new system by selling covertly.
I haven't bought or sold on AG since the new ownership/reorganization...are the fees now higher?
A 'reasonable fee' is their flat rate. But the percentage they tag on top of that flat rate is criminal. How can you/they justify this surcharge? This is why people circumvent their new system by selling covertly.
It used to be 1%, it is now 2%.I don't like the commision on sales, but it's your choice whether or not to enter into a sales contract with Audiogon. The reason some people circumvent the commision is because they choose to not honor the legal contract they agreed to and it's relatively easy to get away with it.On two occasions I have contacted Audiogon to notify them of the commission due them because the sales were concluded via personal e-mail. I didn't like paying the commission, but unfortunately it was what I had previously agreed to.Steve
Totoro:At the same time, many expressed their thoughts over and over again. My comment about the kiddies was in reference to a couple who started to personalize their comments, if you took offense to it, oh well, as it wasn't directed towards you. My point about a consensus was pointing out that in discussions such as this, there will rarely be any agreement, just a lot of venting that never solves anything. As far as moderation, Letitroll98 did a commendable job as it would have been easier to nuke the thread. BTW, AG is okay and I too have bought and sold on it without issues....Jim
Steve, you are an honorable man! Bright? Not so much, but honorable is much more important! Sleeping well at night is much better than saving a few bucks, anyway.
Totoro:Not anti-thread, just as you say anti those who continue to post the same argument over and over, or attempt to bully others who chose to post counterpoints.I will say it again, knowledge is the ultimate defense against being ripped off.Jim
That is just the part...where you "challenge another subjective whatever", you seem to want to impose your idea of reality on another...There are some people that think they have the authority to wake me early on weekends(when I wish to sleep late) so they can save my soul. They are the Wicked Ones.
But the argument that this is a claim about people's subjective experience of reality is simply false.
One can posit expectation bias as a reason for perceived changes in sound without challenging anyone else's experience of reality. The expectation bias argument is challenging an explanation of what caused that perception. If there are people who are actually challenging others' subjective experiences, they should be called out explicitly, since they are making an argument that can't be won.But if person a says: "there are no good known engineering reasons why components a and b should sound different, so the null hypothesis should be that the perceived differences in sound are due to expectation bias", he is not making a claim about anyone else's subjective experience of reality. He is making an objective claim about the world that is, at least in some cases, testable. This testing may be very expensive or impractical in some or many cases. But the argument that this is a claim about people's subjective experience of reality is simply false.
