[Devil Doc]

The reciprocal would also be appropriate.

Doc.

[wushuliu]

The reciprocal would also be appropriate.

Doc.

I'm pretty sure you won't need a Stay Off My Damn Lawn sign for that forum.

[jimdgoulding]

Well, there is the Soundsmith straingauge phono cartridge for 5k (maybe there is a less expensive model) and several DAC's that can drive the amplifier direct.  One such DAC that is pretty highly thought of soundwise is the one from Berkeley Labs.  Ya still need a transport or a computer.  Preamps these days do less than their predecessors but cost way more money.  Next thing you know, a straight wire with gain will cost you 10k.  To be fair, there are also some relatively good buys (the Dobbs line?  Red Wine?) that you can find out about at places just like this one here.

[roscoeiii]

I'm with TONEPUB and Jack Roberts on the topic of preamps. Here's what Jack Roberts wrote from his most recent Beatnik column on Dagogo:

"I want to point out that I have come to believe that preamps are the heart and soul of any audio system. I’m not saying you can’t get great sound with a passive line stage, but I am saying that to achieve the kind of bold, alive sound that I’m looking for requires a great preamp."

And I think that the key word there is "great." At certain price points you will need to make trade-offs between passive and active preamp sounds. But there are also preamps that are able to provide the detail of a passive and the alive sound of the active simultaneously. Unfortunately, they often don't fall within the pricing parameters of the Cheap and Cheerful Circle. Within those price parameters, priorities need to be established as there are a good deal of trade-offs that often must be made (which isn't to say that you can't build a very very very satisfying system at the prices of equipment discussed in this forum. Definitely possible).

Full Beatnik column:
http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=1050

[timind]

The question always arises as to where your hard earned money can be best spent on your system. Care to share what components (not brands) you believe to have the most marketing hype and the biggest impact on your wallet?

As the OP mentions "marketing hype," it has to be cables. I'm assuming we're not talking about tweaks such as magic pebbles, crystals or other such crap.

[Letitroll98]

There are a couple of reasons this thread should be binned.  It has little to do with C&C and is an obvious magnet for contention.  However if it remains civil and we can steer it toward what C&C components don't deliver on the hype it might be saved.  For example its hard to find an inexpensive pre that really delivers.  I don't have much hope, but since no one's called anyone a jerk or a moron, we'll let it ride for a bit, albeit on a very short leash.

There ought to be a forum here for those of us who believe in physics and psychology. Being censored and being told I can't call a spade a spade is NOT why I spent the best years of my life serving my country.

There is one D Doc, its called The Lab.  You should check it out
                                         

Doc
[/quote]

[TONEPUB]

There are a couple of reasons this thread should be binned.  It has little to do with C&C and is an obvious magnet for contention.  However if it remains civil and we can steer it toward what C&C components don't deliver on the hype it might be saved.  For example its hard to find an inexpensive pre that really delivers.  I don't have much hope, but since no one's called anyone a jerk or a moron, we'll let it ride for a bit, albeit on a very short leash.

There is one D Doc, its called The Lab.  You should check it out
                                         

Doc

I would certainly agree with that statement.  If I weren't buying used/vintage, I'd probably go with a good integrated.  But I have managed to pick up a few pretty good used pieces for our old school column that I felt were very impressive:

Krell PAM-5, about $650
Klyne SK-5,  $1000
CJ PV12 w/Phono  $800   
ARC SP9, about $600
Audible Illusions Mod 2D, about $500
ModWright 9.0, about $1200


But in broader terms, in my reference system, I haven't heard a passive that was convincing enough to want to own.   

[TONEPUB]

My first wife.

I agree with that statement as well!

[mrhyfy]

Why don't we all agree on Monster Cable and wrap up this thread?   

+100

[Devil Doc]

There is one D Doc, its called The Lab.  You should check it out
                                         

Doc

I'm afraid not. When, in the guidlines, your told it's a DBT free zone, they've thrown science right out the window.

Doc.

[fredgarvin]

Well if any of us haven't realized by now that there are plenty of over-hyped, overpriced, near useless products, and that we can sometimes let our own objectivity slip....we deserve what our silly selves pay for.

[persisting1]

There ought to be a forum here for those of us who believe in physics and psychology. Being censored and being told I can't call a spade a spade is NOT why I spent the best years of my life serving my country.

Doc

Thank you for your service, but this is not why you served. This forum is not State owned and you do have to follow rules.

[sts9fan]

I'm afraid not. When, in the guidlines, your told it's a DBT free zone, they've thrown science right out the window.

Doc.

You can talk about DBT. I have no problem binning it if it strays.

[Devil Doc]

I'm not trying to be contentious, although it seems to be a contentious subject, but why can folks freely wax poetic about the subjective things they hear, but I and others can't post they don't and the reason why they don't?

Doc

[wushuliu]

I'm not trying to be contentious, although it seems to be a contentious subject, but why can folks freely wax poetic about the subjective things they hear, but I and others can't post they don't and the reason why they don't?

Doc

OMG, are you really going to play that card, bro? Now you're embattled on all sides? This is too much...

[DaveC113]

I'm not trying to be contentious, although it seems to be a contentious subject, but why can folks freely wax poetic about the subjective things they hear, but I and others can't post they don't and the reason why they don't?

Doc

Here, let me save you some time...

me: you must be deaf
you: you are imagining things
me: you have poor equipment
you: you are delusional and need to do a double blind test
me: I don't need testing, it's clear as day.

ok, hopefully that covers it, have a nice day. 

[sts9fan]

I'm not trying to be contentious, although it seems to be a contentious subject, but why can folks freely wax poetic about the subjective things they hear, but I and others can't post they don't and the reason why they don't?

Doc

The lab is waiting.  Hard to find these days but it's there.

[mjosef]

but why can folks freely wax poetic about the subjective things they hear..but I and others can't post they don't and the reason why they don't?

That is just the part...where you "challenge another subjective whatever", you seem to want to impose your idea of reality on another...
There are some people that think they have the authority to wake me early on weekends(when I wish to sleep late) so they can save my soul. They are the Wicked Ones. 

[Devil Doc]

That is just the part...where you "challenge another subjective whatever", you seem to want to impose your idea of reality on another...
There are some people that think they have the authority to wake me early on weekends(when I wish to sleep late) so they can save my soul. They are the Wicked Ones. 

You do realize that argument works both ways.

Doc

[mjosef]

Butttt, of course... and hopefully you grasp the point the others have made.