What's the biggest rip-off in high end audio??

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #260 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 04:42 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 2 Jul 2012, 08:48 am

Speaking of watches, here's a nice one:

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/10/04/0406_most_expensive_watches/5.htm

Heck, if I had as much money as Bill Gates, I'd probably own a couple of those. Would I have a $500,000 stereo? I don't think so. It just doesn't make sense to me. Not that that has anything to do with the topic, but anyway...

Actually, it may have more to do with the topic than you give it credit for. You can't rationalize spending 500K on a stereo system but you can grasp the rationality of having a 160 K watch on your wrist with another just like it in the drawer back at the mansion. Perceived value.

Who's to say for others what's a rip-off and what's not ? Not me.

And Andy, time to climb down off that high horse...Shadowfax needs to rest, honey.

D.D.

JohnR · « **Reply #261 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 04:47 pm »

So what determines the amount that one should "blow" on a hobby? Why it is 0.5 million instead of 3.5 million. Perhaps common sense might still come into play at some point?

JohnR · « **Reply #262 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: Diamond Dog on 2 Jul 2012, 04:42 pm

Actually, it may have more to do with the topic than you give it credit for. You can't rationalize spending 500K on a stereo system but you can grasp the rationality of having a 160 K watch on your wrist with another just like it in the drawer back at the mansion. Perceived value.

I didn't say I would wear it

I suppose if I actually knew something about watches then perhaps I wouldn't buy one of those watches either.

I still don't see what it has to do with the topic.

Quote

And Andy, time to climb down off that high horse...Shadowfax needs to rest, honey.

Stop insulting people please. First and only request.

kevin360 · « **Reply #263 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:05 pm »

Quote from: Diamond Dog on 2 Jul 2012, 04:42 pm

Actually, it may have more to do with the topic than you give it credit for. You can't rationalize spending 500K on a stereo system but you can grasp the rationality of having a 160 K watch on your wrist with another just like it in the drawer back at the mansion. Perceived value.

Who's to say for others what's a rip-off and what's not ? Not me.

D.D.

Exactly!

Besides, I don't doubt there are finer goods than I can own. Why should I expect to afford the best? At the end of the day, we purchase these goods for the pleasure they give us. There can be pleasures which transcend basic functionality. Conspicuous consumption feels good - it's a simple, biological fact.

werd · « **Reply #264 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:06 pm »

Someone pointed out on this site awhile back on a similar thread That the higher priced stuff isn't necessarily meant to be sold but just a pinnacle product that they show case everything they got. Cables are bad example here since I think A 20k cable is bordering retarded but a expensive turntable might be a great example.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #265 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:12 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 2 Jul 2012, 04:47 pm

So what determines the amount that one should "blow" on a hobby? Why it is 0.5 million instead of 3.5 million. Perhaps common sense might still come into play at some point?

a) The individual, one might suppose...

b) Or 500 dollars or 5 million ?

c) Ideally yes, but I'm not the arbiter of that, either. I know that for myself, it's difficult to get my head around spending 160 K on a watch but if my circumstances allowed, who's to say ? If I could afford to do it and did so because I appreciate the beauty and craftsmanship of the thing, would that mean I had taken leave of my senses or that I was much more sensible when I was a church-mouse ? Again, perceived value. I do not get into what I've spent on Hi-Fi with guests because I know the reaction that would occur - they may not perceive the same level of value in the audio dingus that I or another enthusiast might. So it goes.
Frankly, people seldom even ask about the bloody stuff and that's fine by me. I didn't do it for anyone other than myself.

D.D.

eclein · « **Reply #266 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:14 pm »

That is a nice watch!

First:
I read Tonepubs stuff and anything else I find about my hobby and then I make a buying decision based on the information I have gathered. If I get ripped off its my fault period. Nobody twists my arm to buy anything and any review is a review based on one mans opinion-the reviewer.

Second:
Who cares how much a trillionaire buys his equipment for or somebody like myself who is cash strapped most of the time like more and more folks are. Who cares!!!

Third:
The biggest rip off in audio or anything else is trusting someone else's opinion on something without any further thought or investigation on the buyers part. Again it all comes down to individual taste, if I like JBL's and your like ZU and we buy what we want to buy and enjoy them then why does it matter how we came to our decision to spend our money. It doesn't!!

Fourth:
I write everything above as if speaking to a bunch of friends sitting around a table and having a nice conversation, I try not to write in such a way that comes off as I'm pissed off or taking someones inventory and it annoys me when folks start to single each other out, and criticize.
Easy guys, easy....

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #267 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 2 Jul 2012, 04:56 pm

I didn't say I would wear it

I would, not to wave in front of people's faces, but rather because it's beautiful. Don't you want to be able to enjoy things of beauty whenever you can ? It's part of what makes life worth living.

D.D.

JohnR · « **Reply #268 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:22 pm »

I tend to scratch and break watches. I put it down to my active lifestyle

Pardon me, I just assumed it was a collectible.

Anyway.

werd · « **Reply #269 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: Diamond Dog on 2 Jul 2012, 05:19 pm

I would, not to wave in front of people's faces, but rather because it's beautiful. Don't you want to be able to enjoy things of beauty whenever you can ? It's part of what makes life worth living.

D.D.

Says the man with his eyes closed...

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #270 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:42 pm »

Ed,

I think we all agree with your point number 4. I try to constantly remind myself that we don't all write and read in the same frame of mind, style, or ability. I think that's the main reason why problems pop up. (I also know that my writing is often unclear. Sorry 'bout that fellas...... My intentions are usually good though.

)

As for the $20k single pair of cables, well, I won't worry about them unless I am in a position to even consider them. They don't bother me a bit because they are not a part of the world I live in. I'll cross that bridge if and when I ever make it down that road. To those of you that are already there, congratulations! Thanks for the post card.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #271 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:50 pm »

Quote from: eclein on 2 Jul 2012, 05:14 pm

That is a nice watch!

First:
I read Tonepubs stuff and anything else I find about my hobby and then I make a buying decision based on the information I have gathered. If I get ripped off its my fault period. Nobody twists my arm to buy anything and any review is a review based on one mans opinion-the reviewer.

Second:
Who cares how much a trillionaire buys his equipment for or somebody like myself who is cash strapped most of the time like more and more folks are. Who cares!!!

Third:
The biggest rip off in audio or anything else is trusting someone else's opinion on something without any further thought or investigation on the buyers part. Again it all comes down to individual taste, if I like JBL's and your like ZU and we buy what we want to buy and enjoy them then why does it matter how we came to our decision to spend our money. It doesn't!!

Fourth:
I write everything above as if speaking to a bunch of friends sitting around a table and having a nice conversation, I try not to write in such a way that comes off as I'm pissed off or taking someones inventory and it annoys me when folks start to single each other out, and criticize.
Easy guys, easy....

I certainly agree wholeheartedly with this.

Even the best hifi review, no matter who has written it, is still only a way to pique your interest. I would not want anyone to spend their hard earned money blindly just because I like a piece of gear. My hope is always that we've described a product well enough that you would want to seek it out and give it a listen, or that in the course of the review we've uncovered something about the product, that might allow you to cross it off your list and save you a little bit of time in the process.

Andre2 · « **Reply #272 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 05:58 pm »

I am really enjoying this thread, because it is really about life choices, decisions, research.

Because of this very circle "Cheap and Cheerful HiFi" I got to know (and bought) the $100 USD "pure i-20" dock for my iPhone. Great buy, very cheap way to get a music server as I also bought a classic iPod ($250 USD) that holds all my music. So, music server for $350 - plus I also use the iPod for my gym workout time. Performance of this set up, in my home office/listening room? Very similar to my CD player. If I really think about it, it was absolutely not necessary for me to add this to my system - from this point of view it is a rip-off. On the other hand, I could easily afford and - bottom line - I wanted it.

Now, if I had the budget to spend $200k or $500k on a system, you bet I would consider also buying the expensive cable some of you are bashing. Why? Because I could. What is wrong with that?

When i turned 50 (i know I look much younger in my pic, but I am already over 50

) I started doing this math: this goes to xwife, this goes to my dad (who, when younger, blew his money on booze and women and has close to nothing in his retirement), this goes to my kids (who are not always polite to me). So, what about money for myself and my hobbies? Thus, I always wanted a hifi system - so I got one. I always wanted a rolex - am in the process of getting one. and, so on.

Now, if and when I buy this $14k rolex (submariner gold and black

), I know someone somewhere will look at me and notice the rolex and think: what a waste, this guy is stupid, he could (a) help some charity, (b) feed the homeless, (c) help a widow, (d) buy a $50 bucks fossil watch, (e) give this money his kids, (f) give that money to me

. My reply: how do you know I am not doing some (or almost all) the above already? And, if I don't want to do any of the above, what is your business anyway?

So, if I somebody has the money and wants to spend $20k on cables for his system, that is his/er problem. I hope he/she is happy with them.

Devil Doc · « **Reply #273 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 06:05 pm »

Expensive cars and watches aren't good examples. The makers of those products don't distort or re-write the laws of physics to sell them. How come truth in advertising laws don't apply to these people? I don't care if you want to spend money on expensive cables, but if you're being lied to, yea, then I care.

Doc.

Andre2 · « **Reply #274 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 06:06 pm »

By the way, I know this may cause a heart attack in some of you, but here it goes...

my budget for the rolex is more than twice as much as my budget for my hifi system.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #275 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 06:09 pm »

Quote from: Andre2 on 2 Jul 2012, 06:06 pm

By the way, I know this may cause a heart attack in some of you, but here it goes...

my budget for the rolex is more than twice as much as my budget for my hifi system.

OUTRAGE !!!! TO THE BARRICADES !!!!

D.D.

Andre2 · « **Reply #276 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 06:18 pm »

Quote from: Diamond Dog on 2 Jul 2012, 06:09 pm

OUTRAGE !!!! TO THE BARRICADES !!!!

D.D.

Berto · « **Reply #277 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 06:20 pm »

Quote from: Andre2 on 2 Jul 2012, 06:06 pm

By the way, I know this may cause a heart attack in some of you, but here it goes...

my budget for the rolex is more than twice as much as my budget for my hifi system.

Even at 14k a Rolex is a MUCH better buy then anything audio (investment wise). I bought one for $3600 (MSRP) in 98, scratched it up for 12years and then sold it on Ebay for get this a PROFIT

BUT , I bought a pair of hi end speaks w/the money and although they will NOT be sold as a profit I enjoy them a helluva lot more

In keeping with the thread, the only audio rip off is the one does NOT work for you...so either buy right or buy with a demo period and your losses will be lil.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #278 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 06:25 pm »

Andre2 - sorry, but you might be throwing your money away on a 14k Rolex.

Years ago, a jeweler I knew who was one of the very few in the world good enough to be certified to service Patek Philippe watches dismissed Rolex as you might dismiss Bose - as a marketing scheme designed to separate the gullible from their money - a cheap movement in a fancy case; in other words all the quality where you can see it - like Bulova, he said!

Have a peek at this page: http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml

Wayner · « **Reply #279 on:** 2 Jul 2012, 06:27 pm »

I've spent 35 years in the manufacturing world. I was also trained to be a designer in the manufacturing world. When someone produces a "cost no object" product, it is the perfect example of engineering failure. It goes cross-grain to every single thing taught and expected by every employer on earth. Does the "cost no object" product exhibit outstanding qualities or values? Almost always the answer is a great big no! There is also very little sympathy for anyone who is stuck with such a product. It's not about value. And what's wrong with this statement: "I can afford it, you can't, and therefore its good".

A mans true value is not based on his possessions, but rather, what he has given away. Many have given their lives for others. That is the greatest gift on earth.

The greatest rip off in hifi is in the heart of the owner. Perhaps he is AN OWNER OF A LONELY HEART.

W