Acoustic Elegance and Eminence Alpha price versus sound quality

larsss · « **on:** 16 Jun 2012, 10:14 pm »

Is the AE Dipole 18 inch worth the extra money 2 woofers a 449USD + 280 shipping + 294 tax = 1472 USD
and for the Eminence Alpha 2 woofers a 62USD + shipping 204 USD + 82 tax = 410 USD

Well, the additional price be justified by better sound quality ?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Jun 2012, 11:06 pm »

My 2 cents are:
It surely worth the extra money for some applications, as bass guitar, organ, stage monitor and Home Theater, but for Hi-End music it had a weavy cone(moving mass=115grams), the Alpha15-A seems better with 59grams.

As one can figure a ligther cone is important to made music details sound good, I sure both cones are good, rigid and strong in the others parameters.
Worth mention the AE Dipole-18 use two 8 ohms voice coils, it always need more power to work, so a small tube amp will no work here, for comparison the Alpha15-A minimum recommended by audiophiles that use it are a amp with 30W.
With the two VC it will run in 4 ohms in parallel ou in 16 ohms in series, no 8 ohms avaliable.
The Alpha15-A is a winner with 59g, hi sensitivity=97dB and huge QTS=1,26 for just 65dollars.

larsss · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Jun 2012, 11:41 pm »

Very interesting. I was just about to order the AE but thougt I should ask for other opinions.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 12:09 am »

I would add a 115g 18 inches is great effort by the current technology, it is light for a 18inches, this cone will last til the next century.
The pro audio Beyma SM118/N sport a 123grams moving mass, so more heavy than the AE D-18;
The AE-18 is a great driver per se, but the Alpha15A cone is smaller and this help to get a lighter cone, this Alpha15A is a old boy in the market, reliable and refinated, Eminence make a point here.
Eminence would go next level and release a alloy frame Alpha15-A, of course at new price.

JohnR · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 05:33 am »

Personally I'd go for the AE 18. What frequency will you be crossing?

larsss · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 08:04 am »

To be crossover active at 500hz to an Altec 511B horn.

JohnR · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 10:21 am »

Some have said the Alpha don't work well that high. No personal experience myself.

I can't find much online about the FR of the Dipole 18. I did find some issues with long delivery times..... Have you considered using a pair (per side) of the GR Research servo drivers?

http://gr-research.com/sw-12-16fr.aspx

That would come in somewhat slightly cheaper than the Dipole 18, and would give you a little more volume displacement. However I think you do need to use them with the matching amps.

Danny would be able to answer questions about the frequency response / crossover that you are planning to use. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=16.0

JohnR · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 10:47 am »

I'm wondering if you are in Europe. If so Bastanis has an interesting option:

http://www.bastanis.com/kits_mandala.html#dipolbaesse

larsss · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 10:52 am »

The Gr Reasearch Servo subwoofer system been on my shortlist but than I will be into a 3-way active system incl. the NEO units and a H-frame. Everything is than getting more complicated.

I also evalueted to use the servo subwooers on an open baffle but I think its not possible to use these above 200hz.

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 12:15 pm »

Ah yes, I see now that even if the crossover is disabled the response is limited:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/faq.html#removexo

I still wonder if you can't find a solution that doesn't require such high shipping. The Alphas are not really that special, you should be able to get equivalents locally...?

GaloDourado · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 02:31 pm »

If you are in Europe, you can find Eminence in www.thomann.de at good prices.

I've bought mines there some months ago, Deltalite II 2515 in an special at a very good price

larsss · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 02:55 pm »

Will also look for the Eminence Alpha here locally.However, it all depends of the sound quality compared to the price.

If the Alpha sound like a 62USD unit and the Acoustic Elegance Dipole 15 or 18 sound 10 times better the choice is easy.

If the Eminence Alpha sounds almost as good as AE the choice is also easy.

The question is, how close is it, or how far. Anyone with any experience ?

GaloDourado · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 03:03 pm »

Sorry, my bad. What I've bought from Thomann was a microphone & cable. I've got Deltalites from www.bluearan.co.uk and even now they sell at a very good price

FYI Deltalites have been used:

Here until 180Hz LR2: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OBL11.htm

and

Here until 1.2Khz: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/yamamoto9/speaker.html

I still did not used them, so I can not give you my own opinion about them. All buyings are already done, but project is stopped at the moment.

Rudolf · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Jun 2012, 08:26 pm »

Quote from: larsss on 17 Jun 2012, 02:55 pm

Will also look for the Eminence Alpha here locally.

It doesn't make it easier to give buying advice if people shy away from stating their nationality.

Look for yourself, if this is of any help for you:

Quote from: scorpion on 21 Apr 2012, 07:23 am

Regarding jacozz question about the A&D R1524 I am happy to say that this speaker compares extremly well with the AE IB15 soundwise. The IB15 naturally goes deeper but that is really the only difference of significance.

As I said in another thread I will post some comparison between AE IB15, A&D R1524 and Eminence Alpha15. Some research is done but I couldn't finish before I went away, so I will come back on that subject.

/Erling

Architect7 · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Jul 2012, 07:32 am »

Here is a thread on AE that discusses some technical background of the Alpha:

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2789

I have two AE IB15's in OB and they are superb. I hope to run Dipoles someday, AE is in a class by itself.

MJK · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jul 2012, 12:08 am »

That is a very biased review of the two drivers presented by a manufacturer with a definite interest in the final conclusion.

I have four Alpha 15A drivers and four Dipole 15 drivers and can swap them in and out of an OB system that I have running in my room. No question that the Dipole 15 is the better made driver and has some real advantages over the Alpha 15A, it is also significantly more expensive.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges, they are each very different and require different system design trade-offs. Repeating from above, the Dipole 15 is much more expensive compared to the Alpha 15A. The Dipole 15 is a little more difficult to integrate into a system, it really requires an active crossover to work well and extend down to its low resonant frequency (more cost for an extra amp) and as a result will not be nearly as efficient. The Alpha 15A works well with an active crossover but also is easy to use with a 2nd order passive crossover because of the higher fs and higher Qts. The Alpha 15A will not reach as low as the Dipole 15 but is more efficient after accounting for the crossover.

In an OB, H frame, or U frame system niether driver should be run much above 200 Hz so all of the discussion about distortion and the plots of the response out to many thousand Hz is not really relavent in my opinion.

My conclusion having owned and worked with each driver is that the Dipole 15 is a better driver although it is a little more difficult to integrate into a system. The Alpha 15A is a good driver and many people like the sound produced, in particular in H frames, and the price cannot be beat. Both drivers represent good value in their particular price ranges. When deciding between the two look at the system you want to build not just the driver, the cost, and the type of crossover you are comfortable using for the finished speaker. Those trade-offs should should drive your decision.

Martin

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Jul 2012, 12:49 am »

MJK: Well said Martin.
The AE D15 woofers are suited to powerful amps, as the sensitivity is low at 90dB, the cone moving mass is heavy at 90grams for a small amp, and it had 2 voice coils...
No small tube amp can work in these hard conditions. I just found the Eminence ~~Kappa15-A Pro~~ KAPPA PRO-15A, it is 100dB spl, MMS=72g, Xmax=3,2mm, but Xlimit=13,2mm, I afraid the QTS=0,38 is too low for OB.
And it is not expensive at 160 dolars each;
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappa_Pro_15A.pdf
I wonder if it is a good choice for OB or even if it work as OB is a U frame??
Thanks for any help.

MJK · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Jul 2012, 01:47 am »

In my opinion you would need some low end EQ to make the Kappa Pro driver work well in a dipole. I propably would not try it. Personally I look for a minimum Qts of 0.7 and like 1.0 better, just my particular method and there are many other methods that also work.

Martin

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Jul 2012, 02:22 am »

Martin: Thanks for reply.
If it do a good bass til 60Hz it is fine to me, I could not desire under 60Hz bass.
With this QTS=0,38 how would be the bass of this woofer??
Too dry/hard or even bad sound??
Thanks

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Jul 2012, 05:28 am »

Just found this Delta_Pro_15A at Eminence site, seems a little better than the Kappa mentioned above.
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_Pro_15A.pdf
Qts=0,40 is not great, cone mass=61grams and delivery 99dB at 200-300Hz, VAS=243L also is good, price is low around 140 dolars each.