[neobop]

IMO you can do much better than NAD.  I own an NAD integrated with soft clipping.  Sure, it will put out much more power than rated, but aren't you getting this to listen to?  Some of those big Onykos weigh 50 lbs and nearly double their power at 4 ohms.  I'm not up on the latest NAD, is that what you'll be looking at?  My old Adcom 555 would easily beat any NAD back then.  The Onkyos even more so. BTW, I also sold Infinity Kappas and have an idea of what you're going through.  Efficiency isn't all that low but the deep bass capability requires some balls, not soft clipping.  Older NAD sounds polite, transistory and closed in.  That Rotel linked to earlier would be excellent, I think.  Read the third review here:
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/infinity-systems/kappa-8-1/prd_119594_1594crx.aspx

I remember the orig Kappa 8 having impedance dips in the bass. That's why guys would blow up their amps when they cranked it up. You need an amp that's stable at 2 ohms. If you can't get a Threshold or a Rowland, IMO get as close as you can.

[a.wayne]

Onkyo's are highly underrated , good sonics , an adcom 555 will drive anything and are bargains at current prices .

Best bet under 600 ?
Aragon .... ! 
Next Sunfire ....!
Better than the Chinese stuff at these prices ..

Regards ..

[neobop]

Sunfire, like this?

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/sunfire-symphonic-reference-power-amplifier-list-2500--2

BTW, I looked up the power rating for the Onkyos.  The M-508 is the one;

http://audio-database.com/ONKYO/amp/integram-508-e.html

[JLM]

IMO you can do much better than NAD.  I own an NAD integrated with soft clipping.  Sure, it will put out much more power than rated, but aren't you getting this to listen to?  Some of those big Onykos weigh 50 lbs and nearly double their power at 4 ohms.  I'm not up on the latest NAD, is that what you'll be looking at?  My old Adcom 555 would easily beat any NAD back then.  The Onkyos even more so. BTW, I also sold Infinity Kappas and have an idea of what you're going through.  Efficiency isn't all that low but the deep bass capability requires some balls, not soft clipping.  Older NAD sounds polite, transistory and closed in.  That Rotel linked to earlier would be excellent, I think. 

To be honest I haven't been in the NAD/Rotel market for a few years, but I prefered the NAD sound/performance to the 70 wpc Rotel receiver I still have in my 2nd audio system (wish I had my old 20 wpc NAD versus the Rotel).  In "it's day" (30 years ago) the NAD sound (not build, although no compliants about NAD) was more highly regarded then Rotel has ever been.

BTW not trying to sound superior (after 40 years at this my main rig has the original Channel Island Audio D-100's, 100 watt monblocks, that I scored off A-gon last year for $650/pair, that retailed for $1800/pair, and the source is a $170 Oppo).

[SteveFord]

That Sunfire Neobop linked to looks good, doesn't it?
You won't find yourself running out of steam with that one.
If I had an extra five bills that would be on it's way to me.

[Doublej]

Except that one of the things he asked for was "definitely not less than 100w at 8 ohms. Preferably higher."

The 150W/ch NAD 375BEE was the model previously discussed, but that one is $1099 rather than $599 for the 80W/ch NAD 356BEE.

http://www.spearitsound.com/product.cgi?group=70&product=2927

Steve

Not to mention a subwoofer output. In true AC fashion we've gone off on our own without much regard for the OPs needs. 

I am not saying that it's not a fun discussion BTW. I am wondering if I should sell my B&K for that Sunfire on Audiogon.

[Bigfishhk]

Hi,
With your power requirements and price limitations maybe you should consider a used Onkyo   Which Kappas do you have?  If you listen at med to low volume, maybe you need quality with decent power, rather than quantity.

In terms of 'quality with decent power', does anyone rate the Anthem 225 integrated?
Does 225w into 8 ohms and 310 at 4 ohms.
Reviews I,ve found are excellent.
For low to med volumes, would it do the trick? Assuming I can get a used one for somewhere close to my budget.

Thanks
Tom

[Bigfishhk]

That Sunfire Neobop linked to looks good, doesn't it?
You won't find yourself running out of steam with that one.
If I had an extra five bills that would be on it's way to me.

I sent the seller an mail re the sunfire.want to know when it was produced cause I,m not in market for 20 year old amps. Looks amazing though.

[Bigfishhk]

http://audio-database.com/ONKYO/amp/integram-508-e.html[/url]

How old are these onkyos do you know?

[Bigfishhk]

  Read the third review here:
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/infinity-systems/kappa-8-1/prd_119594_1594crx.aspx

[/quote]
One of the other owner  reviews say the kappa,s need 350w per channel! That won,t be happening in my case.
Tom

[srb]

[How old are these onkyos do you know?

The Onkyo M-508 was produced from 1986 to 1991 so it would be between 21 and 26 years old.

Steve

[opnly bafld]

deleted

[Letitroll98]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cinepro-1K2-2-Channel-Bridgable-To-1000w-Mono-Amplifier-/330745620378?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item4d01f9a79a#ht_1122wt_1185

Just so I can have the joy of being a wet blanket, the Cinepro is a pro amp with 1/4" inputs.

[opnly bafld]

deleted

[Letitroll98]

Just one of many options   http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-438

Yes, and not I'm sure of the engineering reasons behind it (it's for noise reduction), but over on the N-Core circle the tour amp has only XLR inputs and is supplied with those same adapters for single ended connections.  Apparently the designer (Bruno) is very insistent about this, so maybe there's a benefit for other topologies. 

Cinepro primarily makes amps for HT use distributed through pro installers, very dynamic and clear, well built, not the most delicate amps in the world.  Since the founder (Eric Abraham) died there has been somewhat of a shakeup with the company going out then back in to business.  No idea what this has done to the product line or SQ as I really don't follow the company that much.  Perhaps others with more experience might step in.

[neobop]

That Rotel linked to earlier would be excellent, I think.  Read the third review here:
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/infinity-systems/kappa-8-1/prd_119594_1594crx.aspx

I remember the orig Kappa 8 having impedance dips in the bass. That's why guys would blow up their amps when they cranked it up. You need an amp that's stable at 2 ohms. If you can't get a Threshold or a Rowland, IMO get as close as you can.

I haven't found any actual test reports of the Kappa 8.1.  An impedance curve would reveal what's going on. Why else would an 88 or 89dB speaker with response to 32Hz, be such a problem?   Home amps are optimised for 4 to 8 ohm operation. Stability at low impedance depends on the design. When impedance gets very low, too much current flows from the output transistors and they fail.  The Kappa 9 has a dip below 2 ohms. These speakers have an impedance of 6 ohms, but it's not 6 ohms at every frequency.

The Anthem 225 might be good - over 300 wpc at 4 ohms.  It comes with remote, but no provision for sub out or second set of main out.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/receivers-separates-amps-reviews/anthem-integrated-225-review/

Perhaps you could acquire separates one piece at a time.  Can you drive a separate amp with what you have now?  A sub out or second set of pre outs and remote are functions of the preamp. If you could go separates, you'd have the luxury of optimising each piece to do what you want.  Your requirements and budget are a tall order. 

[srb]

The Anthem 225 might be good - over 300 wpc at 4 ohms.  It comes with remote, but no provision for sub out or second set of main out.

No, but the one pre out can be used with the subwoofer and there would not likely be the need for an external power amp with this amplifier and system.  An Anthem 225 was listed on Audiogon today, but as would be expected, the price is $1050 shipped ($1500 MSRP).

However, I wouldn't expect this amplifier to be available used for $800 anytime soon, and certainly not for $600. *

* Edit:  I guess you never know what kind of deal you'll run across, as there was an Anthem 225 sold here on Audiocircle for $700 back in June of 2011.  But they don't come up for sale too often.

Steve

[a.wayne]

Sunfire, like this?

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/sunfire-symphonic-reference-power-amplifier-list-2500--2

BTW, I looked up the power rating for the Onkyos.  The M-508 is the one;

http://audio-database.com/ONKYO/amp/integram-508-e.html

I would go for an Aragon ... 

[neobop]

I would go for an Aragon ... 

Interesting.  I remember Aragon from the late '80s.  It was designed by Dan D'agostino of Krell.  I forget which marketing group handled it, but we sold it.  It was rather unusual looking with a V cut down near the middle for cooling and an ugly black finish.  Yea, the thing could drive nails and it was much less expensive than the big names.  The sound was rather dark/dead.  Much darker than Krell or Rowland, but paired with the right preamp (ARC) it could sound pretty good. 

I thought the company was defunct. Now I see that it was bought by Klipsch and more recently sold to Indy Audio.
OP budget is around    Do these show up used?  If so, careful preamp selection required.

[squirrel_nut]

scoure audiogon & ebay for Adcom.  $600 ought to be enough for a nice used amp + pre.