[CharlesL]

Okay, which pair of these speakers would you choose? I now have 2 pairs of the De Capo I's (1,5 month old) and I may be able to trade in 1 pair for a pair of Suprema Series 2 (from '98, original/unmodified).

I'm thinking if I do that, the 4 speakers which are used in a hometheater setup, would still match sonically and I won't be needing to buy 1 or even 2 dedicated subwoofers that much anymore, because the Supremas come with subs.

Also the integration of the subs with stereo music, which is still very important to me, will be no longer an issue because I use the ones in the Supremas which will be just setup as Large type speakers. I would be running movies just in a 4.0 setup instead of the normal 5.1 setup.

Would that be a good deal or not? Any thoughts appreciated.

Kind Regards

[Terry]

Okay, which pair of these speakers would you choose? I now have 2 pairs of the De Capo I's (1,5 month old) and I may be able to trade in 1 pair for a pair of Suprema Series 2 (from '98, original/unmodified).

The Supremas were and are one of my favourite speaker systems. I could never afford them but they are clearly in another league to the DeCappos, and not just because of the extended bass of the Supremas. I would not hesitate to do this.

[Red Dragon Audio]

Okay, which pair of these speakers would you choose? I now have 2 pairs of the De Capo I's (1,5 month old) and I may be able to trade in 1 pair for a pair of Suprema Series 2 (from '98, original/unmodified).

I'm thinking if I do that, the 4 speakers which are used in a hometheater setup, would still match sonically and I won't be needing to buy 1 or even 2 dedicated subwoofers that much anymore, because the Supremas come with subs.

Also the integration of the subs with stereo music, which is still ve ...

The Supremas would be a good trade but if you are going with the home theater route (or even stereo), I would stick with the De Capo -I's.  My reason is that the Supremas pretty much only offer better cabinetry than the de capos but not much else.

Your -i versions now have better cabinets, better capacitors on the newer tweeters.

If you are trying to get more low end response by getting full range towers I think it is a mistake for one very big reason:

PLACEMENT

The supremas will have the "subs" integrated as stands for what is basically a de capo-i speaker.  Now this is where the problem lies in that good placement for the top part of the speaker (the monitor) usually doesn't translate into good placement for bass response.

Since the Supremas have an integrated bandpass sub I am not sure how their low end response integrates with the room (if it were just a sealed enclosure I would know you should keep the de capo monitors and just get some subs).

Bass is just a tricky beast in that it likes to be placed at certain spots in a room and each room is quite different.  By having the De Capo-i monitors free to place anywhere and a pair of seperate subs, you get the best of both worlds.  You can place your monitors for best soundstaging, width, imaging and so on; AND you can place your subs for the best in-room-bass response.


Will the store owner let you take home the Supremas to try out in your house?  That would settle this matter in the best way possible.

[CharlesL]

Thanks for the advice.

The deal is off though, my girlfriend absolutely did NOT want to switch to these, in her words, grotesque and ugly and way too large speakers.

I'm looking for dual subs now.

[Red Dragon Audio]

Thanks for the advice.

The deal is off though, my girlfriend absolutely did NOT want to switch to these, in her words, grotesque and ugly and way too large speakers.

I'm looking for dual subs now.

From what  have read about other people's experiences, the REL line of subs are superb.  Guys with Magnepans are using them so they must be fairly quick and tight to match up with those kinds of speakers.

Good luck on the sub hunt!

[CharlesL]

Thanks for the advice.

The deal is off though, my girlfriend absolutely did NOT want to switch to these, in her words, grotesque and ugly and way too large speakers.

I'm looking for dual subs now.

From what  have read about other people's experiences, the REL line of subs are superb.  Guys with Magnepans are using them so they must be fairly quick and tight to match up with those kinds of speakers.

Good luck on the sub hunt!

Thanks and yeah you may be right, I think it's time to give them a audition, maybe I'll try the new Rel Strata 5. However, I have auditioned the MJ Acoustics Reference One already, which some people hold higher then the Rel sub, and I didn't like that sub much.

Too bad the Rocket UFW-10 subs aren't readily available over here.

btw, I found your earlier advice about Placement very useful. Thanks

[vinagunner]

Thanks and yeah you may be right, I think it's time to give them a audition, maybe I'll try the new Rel Strata 5. However, I have auditioned the MJ Acoustics Reference One already, which some people hold higher then the Rel sub, and I didn't like that sub much.

Too bad the Rocket UFW-10 subs aren't readily available over here.

btw, I found your earlier advice about Placement very useful. Thanks

the top section of the suprema 2 consists the royal master 2, which i presume alone is better than the mmdci.

so why you backed off the deal is beyond me  

[CharlesL]

so why you backed off the deal is beyond me  

This has already been answered in this thread ... try reading more carefully next time     {hint}..girlfriend and her opinion..{hint}

[vinagunner]

so why you backed off the deal is beyond me  

This has already been answered in this thread ... try reading more carefully next time     {hint}..girlfriend and her opinion..{hint}

i did. my point was: I'd swapped the mmdci for the suprema 2 and use JUST the royal master on top of it. and then a) put the bass section away. b) sell it or c) junk it.

[Red Dragon Audio]

The MMDCi is the improved version of the MMDC.  Better cabinet, better tweeter, better bracing, better binding posts, better capacitors on the tweeters.

The Suprema II monitor was just an improved version of the MMDC (with bass modules but for this comparison we will only consider the Suprema II monitor section).  I would bet the MMDCi is 99%-101% as good as the Suprema II and for less money.

They use the same main driver.

They both have ZERO crossover components on the main driver.

They use a simple cap on the tweeter.


if you are considering the Suprema II's because they have integrated subs then that could be a very good option.  The sub towers are handsome and integrate well with the monitor section visually.  I can't say how they sound together as I've never been able to hear a set so maybe I'm way off here.


The newer Royal Virtuoso is pretty much the MMDCi with an even better posts and cabinet construction still (reduced diffraction from the rounded edges).  I don't see how going back to '98 Suprema II's is a step up from the current improved MMDCi.  Sometimes this is true with certain speakers but maybe I just need to hear the Suprema II to understand if this is better.  I just doubt it since the main driver is still being used and the same tweeter just without ferrofluid is still being used.  It's a Seas tweeter.  Nothing fancy really but I do like the silk dome sound.


I think what would be the ultimate solution for wanting more bottom end is to get a pair of sealed subs, a good crossover with very steep slopes (24-48db/oct), small parametric EQ for the subs to tame peaks and cross the MMDCi's over at about 80-100Hz.  With a very steep slope the integration should be quite seemless with some adjusting...it will take time to get it right but once you do, the MMDCi's will be improved more than you could have thought.

IM distortion in the MMDCi will be greatly reduced and the sound will improve substantially.  This is because if you are asking the main driver on the MMDCi's to reproduce frequencies from 40Hz up to 4k,5k with the same clarity and SPL levels you are going to get quite a bit of IM distortion in there that just isn't pleasant.  

Low frequencies require either greater cone area to move the same amount of air for any given SPL or greater excursion to move that same amount of air to reach the same SPL.  So you see where this is going...if you ask the MMDCi woofer to make bass it will.  If you ask it to make bass and midrange it will however at a price.  That is increased IM distortion.  Take away it's extra low bass duties and it will free up the midrange greatly.  It will still have that MMDCi sound but cleaner and more dynamic.


The subs will handle all the sub bass needs and when properly placed in the room with bass absorption and a slight taming of any major peaks with the EQ, you will have one smooth sounding system with much greater dynamic impact and headroom.  And again the midrange will be freed from the colorations generated by long excursions...


I know from personal experience how MMDC's sound with very musical subs.  I was at Aris Audio with my old MMDC's and was able to hook them up with a pair of Vandy 2WQ subs.  Now the sub integration was very smooth, albeit it was only a 6dB/oct slope, so not as much bass was taken away from the MMDC's but even that setup proved to me that subs should be the ones handling bass duties.

I love how the MMDC's do bass.  They sound great on their own.  In the right system  and room they are all you would ever need/want most of the time.  But when I heard how much more dynamic they became and even less colored with subs handling the lowest notes well I became  believer in higher quality subs with hgh quality monitors.

Anyway, this is just my 2cents ...
 

[j3tbl8ck]

Well, I have my MMDC with the James Loudspeaker 12 sub and they sound really good...  both music and HT...  personally, I love them...  give that a try..

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/904james/

[Red Dragon Audio]

Well, I have my MMDC with the James Loudspeaker 12 sub and they sound really good...  both music and HT...  personally, I love them...  give that a try..

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/904james/

hi,

You might even want to integrate the R-DES EQ/crossover system with your james sub.  YOu would get a steep crossover slope so it disappears more completely (acoustically speaking) and you would have a 4-band parametric EQ to tame any peaks it might have.

Whatever the James' crossover slope is; 12dB/oct, 18dB/oct etc will be in addition to the steep 24dB/oct low pass crossover in the R-DES system.  So you can raise the crossover point even higher without the sub becoming any more detectable in the room.


Just a thought for an already great system I'm sure.

[j3tbl8ck]

http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=970

Heavystarch,

Thank very much for the suggestion.  I will definitely give that a try, after I'm settled down with my new house,  of course... Anything to improve my system.  The HT room is the first room that I actually completely finished setting up, even prior to setting up my bed in the master-bedroom.   (my wife wasn't too happy about that)  

Anyhow, since this house allows me to have a HT setup, I would like to convert my 2 channels into a 5.1.  As you can see in the picture, I am currently using my Onkyo 989 ver2 (my bedroom receiver) as my temporary component to run my HT.  I'm planning on purchasing the Amp and PreAmp to replace it.  I kind of like the Proceed AMP5 and the Proceed AVP S A/V Preamp combo, but it can only afford an used set, since my budget is only $5K.  (due to new house  and all) Do you have any recommendations?

Thank you in advance.

Jet

[CharlesL]

http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=970

Heavystarch,

Thank very much for the suggestion.  I will definitely give that a try, after I'm settled down with my new house,  of course... Anything to improve my system.  The HT room is the first room that I actually completely finished setting up, even prior to setting up my bed in the master-bedroom.   (my wife wasn't too happy about that)  

Anyhow, since this house allows me to have a HT setup, I would like to con ...

Interesting picture, is that a centerspeaker in the middle? If so, which brand centerspeaker do you have there and how does it integrate soundwise with the de capo's? How much does it cost and where did you buy it?
It looks like you have 2 different stands or is that just the picture?
Are you usually listening with the dustcaps attached to the de capo's? They are supposed to sound better with the caps removed.
The speakers seem to be pretty close to the backwall? You may get improved soundstage by placing them a little bit further away.

All these questions I know but I am using the de capo's in a HT set as well so I'm just curious..  

[Red Dragon Audio]

that was odd...firefox wont' bring that picture up for me but IE will.

i will have to forward this error to them.


Yes.  You need to bring your speakers out from the wall or consider strongly treating the wall directly behind them with 1"-2" thick rigid fiberglass panels of 3 PCF or less.  You'll get much better depth and soundstaging than you do now.

really you should treat the wall even if you pull them out too.

By the way, that room is great looking with the vibrant blood orange paint (what color is it really?).