Here's one for Danny.....

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Rclark

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #20 on: 2 Jun 2012, 07:54 am »
I was just kinda hoping we'd get to see some of that stuff too  :D

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #21 on: 2 Jun 2012, 01:43 pm »
Well you were talking dream speaker. And what this little mini-monitor is a bit of a dream. No other monitor sized speaker has 93db sensitivity and hits a -3db of 20Hz. All of coarse that's all due to its integrated stand with servo controlled bass.

Cabinet complexity moves this design away from the kit market as does the price. I have been doing this for a while and kits above 2 grand don't move real fast compared to lower priced designs. Most people in that price range and above want completed speakers.

I do have new X Series kits coming though. X-Pro, X-Optima, and X-Otica all use my new woofers the Peerless tweeter (one of the best domes on the market) in a wave guide.

X-Pro might be just what you are looking for. Ahead of the market woofers seen here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97188.msg1050682#msg1050682 And this tweeter: http://gr-research.com/gr-t3tweeter-1.aspx (again, with wave guide). This will be a two way design and a kit. It will be available in two versions. One will be a small floor standing cabinet with rear terminated transmission line similar to what I did with my N3. That will give it a -3db below 40Hz, maybe even mid 30's. In this version it will be similar to (but a step or two above) a Merlin or maybe even a YG Carmel. Then it can also be built as a sealed box mini-monitor as well. I think I can list this kit for around $600.

How's that? 

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #22 on: 2 Jun 2012, 01:45 pm »
Danny, when you say "The Mini monitor uses a pair of Neo drivers covering from 200Hz and up" you mean a Neo10 and a Neo3 per side?

Yes, the whole product line for Serenity Acoustics uses Neo 10's and Neo 3's (a custom Neo 3). Most of these are open baffle designs too.

BTW, the front page sure looks much cleaner and a lot easier to navigate through. I like it!

jcotner

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #23 on: 2 Jun 2012, 04:49 pm »
I have been doing this for a while and kits above 2 grand don't move real fast compared to lower priced designs.

I see your point, but I bet if you did a kit in the $1500-$2000 range it would dust anything for
miles around. Especially if it was like a MTM with no sub.
And probably would be a dream speaker to me because I built it.  :D

How's that?

Now you're talking but I'd most likely still spend the two grand on an ultimate monitor without a sub
if you had one. After you finish the X-pro I'd be curious to see the measurements though.

gprro

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #24 on: 2 Jun 2012, 05:12 pm »
Yes, the whole product line for Serenity Acoustics uses Neo 10's and Neo 3's (a custom Neo 3). Most of these are open baffle designs too.

BTW, the front page sure looks much cleaner and a lot easier to navigate through. I like it!

Arghh :duh: Ive been dreaming about doing something like that for a while. Congrats to Serenity though! Looking forward to seeing the products. I really wanted to do a giant ob array with a big line of servos. You could probably drive the mains with something like atma-spheres too. Should be amazing!

gprro

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #25 on: 2 Jun 2012, 05:24 pm »
I guess I can "settle"  :lol:, for an ob array like the ls9's with the new woofs, and a few servos. Can I call dibs on those? Haha, hope there's a kit...

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #26 on: 2 Jun 2012, 05:27 pm »
Quote
I see your point, but I bet if you did a kit in the $1500-$2000 range it would dust anything for
miles around. Especially if it was like a MTM with no sub. And probably would be a dream speaker to me because I built it. 

I do have a 16 ohm version of that new woofer coming as well. It is a pretty high Q though and would need a lot of air space.

Quote
After you finish the X-pro I'd be curious to see the measurements though.

The measurements will look incredible or I won't release it. There won't be a flaw on them.

Quote
I really wanted to do a giant ob array with a big line of servos.

Me too. Oh wait, I am.  :green:

Quote
You could probably drive the mains with something like atma-spheres too.

I have amps even better than that.  :green:

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #27 on: 2 Jun 2012, 05:33 pm »
I guess I can "settle"  :lol:, for an ob array like the ls9's with the new woofs, and a few servos. Can I call dibs on those? Haha, hope there's a kit...

All planar magnetic drivers other than the servo woofers. Likely powered and using digital crossovers that will really be the first digital crossovers of its kind. The first true audiophile level digital crossovers. It will even be time and phase coherent.

Not a kit though... Way to complex of a cabinet design. Some of it may actually be carbon fiber as well.

gprro

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #28 on: 2 Jun 2012, 05:45 pm »
Ugh, you're killing me :lol:, I was thinking directly driven with crossovers on the electric side or dacs in front too. The atmas set up like that, speakers wired to 16ohms, and driving the neos load would be real happy. Looking forward to the amps you run on them too. I was even envisioning something with carbon or all milled aluminum. Curious what the baffles/cabs will look like now.

Was hoping you might do a neo8/new woofs ob array with tge other comment as a kit...? :green:

HAL

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #29 on: 2 Jun 2012, 05:50 pm »
All planar magnetic drivers other than the servo woofers. Likely powered and using digital crossovers that will really be the first digital crossovers of its kind. The first true audiophile level digital crossovers. It will even be time and phase coherent.

Not a kit though... Way to complex of a cabinet design. Some of it may actually be carbon fiber as well.
OH BABY! :-)

jtwrace

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #30 on: 2 Jun 2012, 05:51 pm »
I was even envisioning something with carbon or all milled aluminum.
Very simple to do.  The problem is that there are few that can and will pay for that...

gprro

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #31 on: 2 Jun 2012, 06:01 pm »
Yeah, at this level you're talking a comercial product with the cost of other speakers that size.

Sorry OP, this threads gone everywhere :oops:, too much excitement, I second your thoughts on an all out classic monitor design. The berylium scan tweeter and revalator woof would work nicely! The new x series in wave guides will be interesting. Curious how the tweet will compare to other wave guide designs. A lot of those use pro audio type tweeters.

persisting1

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #32 on: 2 Jun 2012, 07:10 pm »
jcotner,

Have you heard Danny's version of the Usher Tiny Dancer? It's an amazing monitor. You can find a pair on the used market and you will not be disappointed. I still regret selling mine  :duh:

tull skull

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #33 on: 2 Jun 2012, 07:18 pm »
Hmmmm, any chance for the "stand" of the dream speaker as a kit?

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #34 on: 2 Jun 2012, 07:39 pm »
Sorry OP, this threads gone everywhere :oops:, too much excitement, I second your thoughts on an all out classic monitor design. The berylium scan tweeter and revalator woof would work nicely! The new x series in wave guides will be interesting. Curious how the tweet will compare to other wave guide designs. A lot of those use pro audio type tweeters.

I don't mind the thread moving around a little bit. There are a lot of new and interesting new designs being discussed.

Don't get too carried away with drivers using exotic materials. That doesn't equate to better sound.  And while that tweeter may boost a Beryllium dome, the air cavity behind it is quite small and the break up or ringing in the upper ranges is fairly substantial.

A fancy frame doesn't buy you anything either. The best thing about that frame (Scan Speak Illuminator woofer) is really how open it is to the air flow on the back side. However, it is still a metal frame and still rings when excited. And in other ways it gives up a lot to our new woofer.

Adding a wave guide to that Peerless tweeter is a pretty big deal. This allows a crossover point in the 1kHz to 1.2kHz range. This is huge. Allowing a tweeter to handle 1kHz to 2kHz verses a woofer is a REALLY big deal. The speed and resolution levels are not even comparable.

Regarding a woofer handling that range. The movement of the cone at that wavelength is fairly short, but at the same time the woofer is having to handle long exertions of the lower wavelengths. So it is a big compromise. That compromise of handling longer exertions is what holds back most two way designs compared to a three way design. The mid in a three way no longer has to handle the lower wavelengths. The result is cleaner mids. The same goes for ranges above 1kHz. A woofer no matter how good is no match for a good tweeter.

Plus the Scan Speak is not all that great for 1 to 2kHz either. The comparable sized Scan Speak Illuminator woofer has a third again more moving mass than my new woofers. The heavier moving mass can be an advantage in allowing the driver to handle ranges below 60Hz or so better. But it can be a real disadvantage in the upper ranges. The heavier moving mass also takes away sensitivity. Plus that Illuminator woofer has quite a bit of upper range break up that can be a big issue. The Revelator woofers are in the same boat. To match the light weight moving mass of my new 6.5" woofers you have to drop back to 5" Illuminator or Revelator woofers. And then your sensitivity levels drop off into the 83 to 85db range. After 5 to 6db of baffle step loss you are in the 80db or less sensitivity ranges. That's not my idea of usable ranges for a mini-monitor. That's the problem with using off the shelf and generic commercial drivers rather than purpose built custom drivers.

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #35 on: 2 Jun 2012, 07:42 pm »
jcotner,

Have you heard Danny's version of the Usher Tiny Dancer? It's an amazing monitor. You can find a pair on the used market and you will not be disappointed. I still regret selling mine  :duh:

Those did turn out pretty well. They won just about every award with every magazine that reviewed them. I think Stereophile still lists them in the Class A recommended list too.

I still think my N2X kit is pretty comparable and a bit give and take in some areas.

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #36 on: 2 Jun 2012, 07:48 pm »
Hmmmm, any chance for the "stand" of the dream speaker as a kit?

I think Ruben mentioned designing something like that to be used as a kit or something. He might even cut some flat packs for them or something. You could then use them with any mini-monitor.

Brian (Rythmik Audio) already has the 4 ohm and 8 ohm 8 inch woofers in stock with the lower Q values. The motor structure is slightly larger than my higher Q version that is designed for open baffle applications so the cost is higher. They will be $10 more per woofer. They only need .35 cubic feet of air space per woofer though.  :thumb:

Brian has not mentioned anything about them because he is still finalizing the new smaller sized servo amps to match them.

gprro

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #37 on: 2 Jun 2012, 08:12 pm »
Good info on the scan stuff. Havn't looked into their specs much, but heard a couple good thing about the tweeter, maybe people just like the new buzz of berylium. I think there were a couple designs floating around with the illuminator and it that got some decent press. Really looking forward to your new woofers now too.

The encore tweeter in the wave guide will be sweet, figured you'd probably get it crossed over really low. In comparison to the pro style tweeters I'm thinking it might have better low level detail and play better at lower volumes. Will it hold up at the crazier high volume with the lack of compresion and dynamics the pro audio tweets excel at? I'm talking 110+db range with no compression or chance of blowing. Probably a little give and take depending on ultimate goals for the speaker.. At those levels it prob not a small monitor though.

jcontner, maybe this will help you out. The x series pro kits sound like they should be great, especialy for the money. Worth trying.


jcotner

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Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #38 on: 2 Jun 2012, 08:34 pm »
Danny some of us guys can build some pretty complex boxes. Bent laminations
are not a big deal. Even fiberglass (carbon is easy to incorporate) is not beyond
a lot of folks ability. That's exactly the way my neighbor built his airplane.
And I do bent laminations every now and then.
Have to say that very high end DSP stuff has been around a while. The studios
and cinema production folks have been using it for a time. I know because I
did that sort of work once upon a time.
I got a few DSP things I could run past you, but not on the internet.

Danny Richie

Re: Here's one for Danny.....
« Reply #39 on: 2 Jun 2012, 08:48 pm »
Quote
The encore tweeter in the wave guide will be sweet, figured you'd probably get it crossed over really low. In comparison to the pro style tweeters I'm thinking it might have better low level detail and play better at lower volumes. Will it hold up at the crazier high volume with the lack of compresion and dynamics the pro audio tweets excel at? I'm talking 110+db range with no compression or chance of blowing. Probably a little give and take depending in ultimate goals for the speaker..

That Peerless (Encore) tweeter is a 94db sensitivity tweeter. The wave guide kicks the lower ranges up to almost 105 levels. So it handles dynamics really well.

The compression drivers always sounded a little hard to handle to me until I started modifying them by removing the rear chamber. This unloaded the diaphragm and created a much smoother and more relaxed sound.

I think the Peerless tweeter will be smoother still and more accurate by producing a near flat response over its entire range. I got the Super-V tweeter really smooth over all but the top octave. The top octave was still a little rough and needed a notch filter to control it. The result was very good, but not near as smooth as the Peerless tweeter.

Oh, and there is another really good thing about this combo of the wave guided Peerless tweeter and my new woofers. A 1kHz wavelength (near crossover point) is about 12" long. And with the Peerless wave guide only being 6" in diameter the acoustic centers of the tweeter and my new woofers are less than 7" apart. So the vertical off axis is very consistent and hardly changes at all even in the extreme vertical off axis. The wave guide also helps maintain a very flat and controlled horizontal off axis. So the over all in room response can be much smoother than just about any other speaker out there.